I'm more upset than I've been in a while.
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@prism Yeah people on the internet read a few words and then put their keyboard warrior capes on.
Next time I visit my grandparents I'll check these settings so the same won't repeat for them.@norad Actually, I tell a lie: I can preview the files. If I try and restore them, it tells me that "the cloud operation cannot be performed on a read-only volume" and skips them.
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@greg @planettimmy Storage Sense can also cause this
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/5386676/onedrive-keeps-deleting-files-without-permissionSo, despite the MS rep saying this "shouldn't happen under normal circumstances," there are in fact two separate and very easy paths that lead to One Drive stealing your files and then obliterating them without ever telling the user this is what it is doing.
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@prism Dude, that's horrible. Damn them, do you have backups of all that stuff which got lost?
How many things were lost?@wing_of_eternity I don't even know, but a lot of stuff. My reaper project folder, for instance, is a third of the size that it should be.
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@prism Dude, that's horrible. Damn them, do you have backups of all that stuff which got lost?
How many things were lost?@wing_of_eternity And yes I had a backup. The backup was oneDrive. Do you understand?
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@planettimmy I wish I knew! What I know is:
- Windows OOBE has you sign in with your MS account which signs you into the associated preinstalled services
- The default shortcut location for documents was in OneDrive, not my local folder.
- At some point I did a decleaning of my Windows (probably Tron or the AI debloater tool or something like that) which removed my OneDrive.
- At some point, my files had been set to online only. I do not know why. Maybe it is an MS default, maybe it was StorageSense. I have no recollection.
- Six months (or whenever) later, I get emails from Microsoft, telling me I will lose access to the files in my onedrive storage if I don't sign in. I ignore them, because I never "used" that storage anyway and thought I still had the local copies.
- Some time later I go to one of these files, which is still listed as present on my hard drive, with file properties in tact, only to discover that it no longer opens. I sign into OneDrive and my storage is at 0% (now 95% because the first thing it did was start re-uploading my current documents folder a second time.)@prism @planettimmy I've nearly run into this as well but averted it:
* MS gives you limited online storage (say, 5gb) in OneDrive
* If you run over that limit, by just naturally saving things to Documents, it'll complain that it's no longer syncing until you delete stuff or pay up for more cloud
* If you STILL ignore their warnings, MS will email you warnings that they're going to delete your files unless you sync again (see above)
* (at this point I did move things to my regular ass hard drive which unblocked syncing and made the scary emails stop)so even users not using a debloat tool etc. can still trip the issue you had. It's not at all clear to users that just filling up storage (which many don't even care about!) can lead to the destructive combo of "some of your files are cloud-only now" + "and we're deleting your cloud-only files"
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@prism Good to know. There's a market void for making Linux and Unix BSD distros accessible for blind users.
@kimcrawley @prism I imagine Linux / BSD is a nightmarish hellscape for accessibility of that sort -- especially given the various distros in use. I'm guessing, though evidently it's not as capable in this area as Windows, macOS would be much closer to not terrible than Linux ever will be.
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@wing_of_eternity I don't even know, but a lot of stuff. My reaper project folder, for instance, is a third of the size that it should be.
@prism I wonder how is it you didn't lose all, literally, all, even so the loss is great as fuck. Damn OneDrive, and its stuff, I would want to remove it from my system entirely. Not using yet Windows 11, but after what I'm hearing, it sounds like a bad idea to try.
Where did you have the files which survived, though? -
@kimcrawley @prism I imagine Linux / BSD is a nightmarish hellscape for accessibility of that sort -- especially given the various distros in use. I'm guessing, though evidently it's not as capable in this area as Windows, macOS would be much closer to not terrible than Linux ever will be.
@blakespot @kimcrawley Voiceover doesn't work well for me and there is no alternative. Also Apple likes the iCloud upsell almost as much as Microsoft. I can't tell you the number of times me or my sister have had to explain to my dad that, just because Apple sent him an email telling him he needs to pay for more iCloud space, he doesn't actually need to do it. Apple is not the solution here.
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I'm more upset than I've been in a while.
Windows 11 sets the default documents folder to onedrive\documents. Anything that gets saved there gets backed up to one drive. This includes various save games, all my Reaper stuff, and various other odds and ends that I like to, you know, save.
To save disc space, OneDrive also defaults to files being online-only. They're not stored on your device, they're just listed there. So despite what they call it, this is in fact not a backup at all, because it doesn't create an extra copy. It is actually just transferring your most precious, irreplacible, personal files to Microsoft in the background, and trusting that nothing will happen. You can see where this is going, but just to underline the point with a bleeding fucking dagger, I did not ask for any of this, I just clicked save like I have done for the last twenty or so years of my life using Windows.
Since I don't care about and have never intentionally used onedrive, I signed out of it. Flash forward six months, the files that I thought were on my computer (because I can go see them there in the folder) are in fact gone from my hard drive, and also Onedrive nuked them from orbit.
Years of my life, gone without a trace. Thanks so much, Microsoft. Whoever came up with all those ideas probably got massive performance bonuses, because we're in the worst timeline.
Goodnight.
@prism my wife lost her dissertation to this type of onedrive fuckery a while back. awful anti-pattern.
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@prism I wonder how is it you didn't lose all, literally, all, even so the loss is great as fuck. Damn OneDrive, and its stuff, I would want to remove it from my system entirely. Not using yet Windows 11, but after what I'm hearing, it sounds like a bad idea to try.
Where did you have the files which survived, though?@wing_of_eternity Because it stops backing up after 5GB's. That's precisely the amount missing.
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@prism my wife lost her dissertation to this type of onedrive fuckery a while back. awful anti-pattern.
@gsuberland God. That's awful. I'm so sorry.
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@gsuberland God. That's awful. I'm so sorry.
@prism it was Office that tricked us. there's a "back up to OneDrive" toggle. so obviously that got turned on because sure, we want it backed up. but as you discovered too, it ain't a backup. worst part is it kept a local copy in Documents, but didn't continue to update it (just left the last version she had saved prior to the toggle). so when we looked in Documents, hey, there the file was. but it wasn't the one she was actually editing.
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@prism it was Office that tricked us. there's a "back up to OneDrive" toggle. so obviously that got turned on because sure, we want it backed up. but as you discovered too, it ain't a backup. worst part is it kept a local copy in Documents, but didn't continue to update it (just left the last version she had saved prior to the toggle). so when we looked in Documents, hey, there the file was. but it wasn't the one she was actually editing.
@prism the fact that it tricked me too, given that Windows internals is my thing, goes to show how misleading their descriptions are of the thing. if I can't figure it out before getting bitten then I don't think many people have a chance either.
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@prism the fact that it tricked me too, given that Windows internals is my thing, goes to show how misleading their descriptions are of the thing. if I can't figure it out before getting bitten then I don't think many people have a chance either.
@gsuberland Thank you! I keep getting these insufferable Linux people like, "Oh! I see the problem. You used windows! You should have backed it up. LUL!" I can't talk to them so this is now your job. I'm sorry.
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@gsuberland Thank you! I keep getting these insufferable Linux people like, "Oh! I see the problem. You used windows! You should have backed it up. LUL!" I can't talk to them so this is now your job. I'm sorry.
@prism the "just use linux" crowd are insufferable. luckily I get to pull out my "I use FreeBSD, fuckwad" card.
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@prism the "just use linux" crowd are insufferable. luckily I get to pull out my "I use FreeBSD, fuckwad" card.
@gsuberland Sadly I can't use BSD or Linux, but I appreciate the sentiment.
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@gsuberland Sadly I can't use BSD or Linux, but I appreciate the sentiment.
@prism I only use it for my servers tbh. Windows on my desktops still.
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I'm more upset than I've been in a while.
Windows 11 sets the default documents folder to onedrive\documents. Anything that gets saved there gets backed up to one drive. This includes various save games, all my Reaper stuff, and various other odds and ends that I like to, you know, save.
To save disc space, OneDrive also defaults to files being online-only. They're not stored on your device, they're just listed there. So despite what they call it, this is in fact not a backup at all, because it doesn't create an extra copy. It is actually just transferring your most precious, irreplacible, personal files to Microsoft in the background, and trusting that nothing will happen. You can see where this is going, but just to underline the point with a bleeding fucking dagger, I did not ask for any of this, I just clicked save like I have done for the last twenty or so years of my life using Windows.
Since I don't care about and have never intentionally used onedrive, I signed out of it. Flash forward six months, the files that I thought were on my computer (because I can go see them there in the folder) are in fact gone from my hard drive, and also Onedrive nuked them from orbit.
Years of my life, gone without a trace. Thanks so much, Microsoft. Whoever came up with all those ideas probably got massive performance bonuses, because we're in the worst timeline.
Goodnight.
@prism can microsoft be sued for this?
JOINT LAWSUIT JOINT LAWSUIT JOINT LAWSUIT JOINT LAWSUIT JOINT LAWSUIT
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I'm more upset than I've been in a while.
Windows 11 sets the default documents folder to onedrive\documents. Anything that gets saved there gets backed up to one drive. This includes various save games, all my Reaper stuff, and various other odds and ends that I like to, you know, save.
To save disc space, OneDrive also defaults to files being online-only. They're not stored on your device, they're just listed there. So despite what they call it, this is in fact not a backup at all, because it doesn't create an extra copy. It is actually just transferring your most precious, irreplacible, personal files to Microsoft in the background, and trusting that nothing will happen. You can see where this is going, but just to underline the point with a bleeding fucking dagger, I did not ask for any of this, I just clicked save like I have done for the last twenty or so years of my life using Windows.
Since I don't care about and have never intentionally used onedrive, I signed out of it. Flash forward six months, the files that I thought were on my computer (because I can go see them there in the folder) are in fact gone from my hard drive, and also Onedrive nuked them from orbit.
Years of my life, gone without a trace. Thanks so much, Microsoft. Whoever came up with all those ideas probably got massive performance bonuses, because we're in the worst timeline.
Goodnight.
@prism so... NOW area you ready to switch to linux?
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@librarysquirrel @altlazybear @prism They don't force an Apple ID (yet) but they do force cloud activation during the recovery/install phase. If you don't have a WiFi network, USB hotspot or ethernet bridge, you're screwed if you want to set up macOS. Lack of a network connection isn't so much the problem insomuch as Apple deciding they will no longer activate your Mac. Oh, and they activate iCloud without your consent too, so there's that. They all suck.
@jackf723 @librarysquirrel @altlazybear @prism And iCloud / iPhone did this precise thing to me on iOS last year.
I had to go in afterwards and explicitly unset all the "store in iCloud" bullshit because they started doing it without telling me. I lost over two years of symptom logs that I had explicitly stored on my phone when I set them up. But the OS update modified the settings without telling me, and when I disconnected iCloud (under the mistaken impression I wasn't using it), they vanished.
They all suck.
