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  3. I'm more upset than I've been in a while.

I'm more upset than I've been in a while.

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  • allezhub@social.vivaldi.netA allezhub@social.vivaldi.net

    @mathew @prism
    I'm wrong. You're right. Happy?

    BTW:
    I don't use any Microsoft product or service. I'm full in on Apple. All my files are in iCloud, which also saves most of them only in the cloud. Never lost any file. Why? Backups (eg. BackBlaze and external drive).

    And now, I wish you both a nice day.

    mathew@universeodon.comM This user is from outside of this forum
    mathew@universeodon.comM This user is from outside of this forum
    mathew@universeodon.com
    wrote sidst redigeret af
    #80

    @allezhub @prism Microsoft tell people that OneDrive is a backup and that their files are "protected". People believe them, and lose their files as a result. I do not believe that it's appropriate to blame the customer in any way in this situation.

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/onedrive/back-up-your-folders-with-onedrive

    allezhub@social.vivaldi.netA 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • prism@infosec.exchangeP prism@infosec.exchange

      Blocked three people today, which is three more than my monthly average. Gotta love the internet.

      B This user is from outside of this forum
      B This user is from outside of this forum
      bluenova@dragonscave.space
      wrote sidst redigeret af
      #81

      @prism know the feeling, some people are just flat out assholes

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • prism@infosec.exchangeP prism@infosec.exchange

        I'm more upset than I've been in a while.

        Windows 11 sets the default documents folder to onedrive\documents. Anything that gets saved there gets backed up to one drive. This includes various save games, all my Reaper stuff, and various other odds and ends that I like to, you know, save.

        To save disc space, OneDrive also defaults to files being online-only. They're not stored on your device, they're just listed there. So despite what they call it, this is in fact not a backup at all, because it doesn't create an extra copy. It is actually just transferring your most precious, irreplacible, personal files to Microsoft in the background, and trusting that nothing will happen. You can see where this is going, but just to underline the point with a bleeding fucking dagger, I did not ask for any of this, I just clicked save like I have done for the last twenty or so years of my life using Windows.

        Since I don't care about and have never intentionally used onedrive, I signed out of it. Flash forward six months, the files that I thought were on my computer (because I can go see them there in the folder) are in fact gone from my hard drive, and also Onedrive nuked them from orbit.

        Years of my life, gone without a trace. Thanks so much, Microsoft. Whoever came up with all those ideas probably got massive performance bonuses, because we're in the worst timeline.

        Goodnight.

        norad@phpc.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
        norad@phpc.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
        norad@phpc.social
        wrote sidst redigeret af
        #82

        @prism Sorry to hear that. What's not mentioned to far I see is to look at the shadow copy feature of windows to try to recover something, in the hopes *something* was at least on the drive after all. Even in home editions of windows, you can use a software like shadowexplorer to look.
        Might be worth a shot.

        prism@infosec.exchangeP 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • prism@infosec.exchangeP prism@infosec.exchange

          I'm more upset than I've been in a while.

          Windows 11 sets the default documents folder to onedrive\documents. Anything that gets saved there gets backed up to one drive. This includes various save games, all my Reaper stuff, and various other odds and ends that I like to, you know, save.

          To save disc space, OneDrive also defaults to files being online-only. They're not stored on your device, they're just listed there. So despite what they call it, this is in fact not a backup at all, because it doesn't create an extra copy. It is actually just transferring your most precious, irreplacible, personal files to Microsoft in the background, and trusting that nothing will happen. You can see where this is going, but just to underline the point with a bleeding fucking dagger, I did not ask for any of this, I just clicked save like I have done for the last twenty or so years of my life using Windows.

          Since I don't care about and have never intentionally used onedrive, I signed out of it. Flash forward six months, the files that I thought were on my computer (because I can go see them there in the folder) are in fact gone from my hard drive, and also Onedrive nuked them from orbit.

          Years of my life, gone without a trace. Thanks so much, Microsoft. Whoever came up with all those ideas probably got massive performance bonuses, because we're in the worst timeline.

          Goodnight.

          ryse@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
          ryse@mastodon.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
          ryse@mastodon.social
          wrote sidst redigeret af
          #83

          @prism This is an absolute nightmare. The last time I set up a Windows 11, I also noticed that everything in the home drive was being saved to OneDrive, and I remember being baffled that the default was cloud storage. But it was even more frustrating that it wasn't straightforward to disable. And now, through your story, we see the impact of this awful design. Thank you for sharing, and hopefully it prompts everyone that uses Windows 11 to take a closer look at how theirs is set up.

          ve3rwj@mastodon.radioV 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • norad@phpc.socialN norad@phpc.social

            @prism Sorry to hear that. What's not mentioned to far I see is to look at the shadow copy feature of windows to try to recover something, in the hopes *something* was at least on the drive after all. Even in home editions of windows, you can use a software like shadowexplorer to look.
            Might be worth a shot.

            prism@infosec.exchangeP This user is from outside of this forum
            prism@infosec.exchangeP This user is from outside of this forum
            prism@infosec.exchange
            wrote sidst redigeret af
            #84

            @norad Yeah so this is where it gets funny. Now that I've opened OneDrive, the files are gone completely. I do have a shadow copy backup from a couple days ago. I can restore it, which will restore the *indexes* to the files. So they appear to be present when I open the folder on my hard drive. But in fact, when I go to open these files, I am told they are not there. This was what prompted me to sign back into onedrive in the first place--only to discover that they are gone from there as well.

            norad@phpc.socialN 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • prism@infosec.exchangeP prism@infosec.exchange

              @acerbt Everyone, literally everyone: I'm so sorry for your loss.

              You: well, what you should have done is...

              Jesus Christ dude.

              mhkohne@mastodon.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
              mhkohne@mastodon.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
              mhkohne@mastodon.social
              wrote sidst redigeret af
              #85

              @prism @acerbt it's a fucking nightmare and frankly criminally under documented as to wtf is going on. And the fact that it doesn't download everything automatically when you sign out is actively malicious.

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • prism@infosec.exchangeP prism@infosec.exchange

                @norad Yeah so this is where it gets funny. Now that I've opened OneDrive, the files are gone completely. I do have a shadow copy backup from a couple days ago. I can restore it, which will restore the *indexes* to the files. So they appear to be present when I open the folder on my hard drive. But in fact, when I go to open these files, I am told they are not there. This was what prompted me to sign back into onedrive in the first place--only to discover that they are gone from there as well.

                norad@phpc.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
                norad@phpc.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
                norad@phpc.social
                wrote sidst redigeret af
                #86

                @prism 😞 jfc

                prism@infosec.exchangeP 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • norad@phpc.socialN norad@phpc.social

                  @prism 😞 jfc

                  prism@infosec.exchangeP This user is from outside of this forum
                  prism@infosec.exchangeP This user is from outside of this forum
                  prism@infosec.exchange
                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                  #87

                  @norad This is why I'm losing my shit completely at the morons who can't read (not you! This was the most on point suggestion anyone has had yet) and tell me I should have backed it up. The backup was one drive. You fucking fools.

                  norad@phpc.socialN 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • prism@infosec.exchangeP prism@infosec.exchange

                    I'm more upset than I've been in a while.

                    Windows 11 sets the default documents folder to onedrive\documents. Anything that gets saved there gets backed up to one drive. This includes various save games, all my Reaper stuff, and various other odds and ends that I like to, you know, save.

                    To save disc space, OneDrive also defaults to files being online-only. They're not stored on your device, they're just listed there. So despite what they call it, this is in fact not a backup at all, because it doesn't create an extra copy. It is actually just transferring your most precious, irreplacible, personal files to Microsoft in the background, and trusting that nothing will happen. You can see where this is going, but just to underline the point with a bleeding fucking dagger, I did not ask for any of this, I just clicked save like I have done for the last twenty or so years of my life using Windows.

                    Since I don't care about and have never intentionally used onedrive, I signed out of it. Flash forward six months, the files that I thought were on my computer (because I can go see them there in the folder) are in fact gone from my hard drive, and also Onedrive nuked them from orbit.

                    Years of my life, gone without a trace. Thanks so much, Microsoft. Whoever came up with all those ideas probably got massive performance bonuses, because we're in the worst timeline.

                    Goodnight.

                    xorbit@noc.socialX This user is from outside of this forum
                    xorbit@noc.socialX This user is from outside of this forum
                    xorbit@noc.social
                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                    #88

                    @prism How is this not outsight theft? They stole files from your PC without your consent.

                    prism@infosec.exchangeP 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • xorbit@noc.socialX xorbit@noc.social

                      @prism How is this not outsight theft? They stole files from your PC without your consent.

                      prism@infosec.exchangeP This user is from outside of this forum
                      prism@infosec.exchangeP This user is from outside of this forum
                      prism@infosec.exchange
                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                      #89

                      @xorbit First off, there's the reality of the situation, which is that law exists to serve corporations not the other way around. But also, assuming I were to somehow sue Microsoft and win, how to calculate the damages? They are priceless to me, worthless to anyone else.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • prism@infosec.exchangeP prism@infosec.exchange

                        @norad This is why I'm losing my shit completely at the morons who can't read (not you! This was the most on point suggestion anyone has had yet) and tell me I should have backed it up. The backup was one drive. You fucking fools.

                        norad@phpc.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
                        norad@phpc.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
                        norad@phpc.social
                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                        #90

                        @prism Yeah people on the internet read a few words and then put their keyboard warrior capes on.
                        Next time I visit my grandparents I'll check these settings so the same won't repeat for them.

                        prism@infosec.exchangeP 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • mathew@universeodon.comM mathew@universeodon.com

                          @allezhub @prism Microsoft tell people that OneDrive is a backup and that their files are "protected". People believe them, and lose their files as a result. I do not believe that it's appropriate to blame the customer in any way in this situation.

                          https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/onedrive/back-up-your-folders-with-onedrive

                          allezhub@social.vivaldi.netA This user is from outside of this forum
                          allezhub@social.vivaldi.netA This user is from outside of this forum
                          allezhub@social.vivaldi.net
                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                          #91

                          @mathew @prism
                          Files will stay local unless you choose otherwise.

                          And if you don't want to use OneDrive you should at least have another backup method?

                          https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/onedrive/save-disk-space-with-onedrive-files-on-demand-for-windows

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • kimcrawley@stopgenai.orgK kimcrawley@stopgenai.org

                            @prism Good to know. There's a market void for making Linux and Unix BSD distros accessible for blind users.

                            B This user is from outside of this forum
                            B This user is from outside of this forum
                            braillescreen@dragonscave.space
                            wrote sidst redigeret af
                            #92

                            @kimcrawley @prism If I may, here's a series of blog posts describing why blind people really can't use Linux reliably, as unfortunate as it is. I really wish things were different so I could run far away from Windows. https://fireborn.mataroa.blog/blog/i-want-to-love-linux-it-doesnt-love-me-back-post-1-built-for-control-but-not-for-people/

                            jstark@caneandable.socialJ M 2 Replies Last reply
                            0
                            • prism@infosec.exchangeP prism@infosec.exchange

                              I'm more upset than I've been in a while.

                              Windows 11 sets the default documents folder to onedrive\documents. Anything that gets saved there gets backed up to one drive. This includes various save games, all my Reaper stuff, and various other odds and ends that I like to, you know, save.

                              To save disc space, OneDrive also defaults to files being online-only. They're not stored on your device, they're just listed there. So despite what they call it, this is in fact not a backup at all, because it doesn't create an extra copy. It is actually just transferring your most precious, irreplacible, personal files to Microsoft in the background, and trusting that nothing will happen. You can see where this is going, but just to underline the point with a bleeding fucking dagger, I did not ask for any of this, I just clicked save like I have done for the last twenty or so years of my life using Windows.

                              Since I don't care about and have never intentionally used onedrive, I signed out of it. Flash forward six months, the files that I thought were on my computer (because I can go see them there in the folder) are in fact gone from my hard drive, and also Onedrive nuked them from orbit.

                              Years of my life, gone without a trace. Thanks so much, Microsoft. Whoever came up with all those ideas probably got massive performance bonuses, because we're in the worst timeline.

                              Goodnight.

                              planettimmy@mastodon.gamedev.placeP This user is from outside of this forum
                              planettimmy@mastodon.gamedev.placeP This user is from outside of this forum
                              planettimmy@mastodon.gamedev.place
                              wrote sidst redigeret af
                              #93

                              @prism That's terrible - what an awful thing to have happened to you, and what a stupid set of decisions from Microsoft.

                              Do you mind if I ask about how your computer decided to delete your local copies? I would like to be able to usefully advise members of my family who use Windows.

                              I'm mainly interested in how it was deciding to switch files over to being online only - could you tell if it was a disk space issue, or just files over a certain age, or was there no apparent rhyme or reason?

                              prism@infosec.exchangeP jdebp@mastodonapp.ukJ 2 Replies Last reply
                              0
                              • jernej__s@infosec.exchangeJ jernej__s@infosec.exchange

                                @adredish @prism Yes, but most people want something they can set and forget, and there are backup programs that work well (and will scream at you if there'a s problem creating the backup), and forced OneDrivification of Documents folder breaks them silently (other cloud storage services can do the same thing, but you have to enable that yourself, and the OS won't try to trick you into enabling them by putting up security alerts like it does with OneDrive).
                                Having a script and a hard drive's fine, but most people won't want to bother with that – I know I certainly wouldn't remember to run my backup script if it wasn't automated.

                                adredish@neuromatch.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
                                adredish@neuromatch.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
                                adredish@neuromatch.social
                                wrote sidst redigeret af
                                #94

                                @jernej__s @prism

                                Totally understand the goal of "set and forget". I love set and forget.

                                But for critical path things, I personally find that a weekly routine of checks is a good thing to do. YMMV, but I was just pointing out to people that this works well for me. (And likely will work well for the unsophisticated computer users who are likely to have developed such non-computerized routines in their lives, which are the people we were originally talking about.)

                                100% OneDrivification is classic enshittification making things worse by drawing people into the prison walls.

                                (Another example is the fact that this kind of hand-driven "backing up texts" is to my observation nearly impossible. - if anyone knows of how to do this easily, I would love to hear it.)

                                cadbury_moose@wandering.shopC 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • altlazybear@mas.toA altlazybear@mas.to

                                  @Kay @prism I feel for ya. My mum went to get a MacBook a few years ago. I didn't ask why but I think she's also prolly tired of Microslop's shenanigans...

                                  prism@infosec.exchangeP This user is from outside of this forum
                                  prism@infosec.exchangeP This user is from outside of this forum
                                  prism@infosec.exchange
                                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                                  #95

                                  @altlazybear @Kay I've never been able to get used to Voiceover on the mac. The iPhone is fine but I'm always frustrated beyond belief when using it on desktop.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • prism@infosec.exchangeP prism@infosec.exchange

                                    I'm more upset than I've been in a while.

                                    Windows 11 sets the default documents folder to onedrive\documents. Anything that gets saved there gets backed up to one drive. This includes various save games, all my Reaper stuff, and various other odds and ends that I like to, you know, save.

                                    To save disc space, OneDrive also defaults to files being online-only. They're not stored on your device, they're just listed there. So despite what they call it, this is in fact not a backup at all, because it doesn't create an extra copy. It is actually just transferring your most precious, irreplacible, personal files to Microsoft in the background, and trusting that nothing will happen. You can see where this is going, but just to underline the point with a bleeding fucking dagger, I did not ask for any of this, I just clicked save like I have done for the last twenty or so years of my life using Windows.

                                    Since I don't care about and have never intentionally used onedrive, I signed out of it. Flash forward six months, the files that I thought were on my computer (because I can go see them there in the folder) are in fact gone from my hard drive, and also Onedrive nuked them from orbit.

                                    Years of my life, gone without a trace. Thanks so much, Microsoft. Whoever came up with all those ideas probably got massive performance bonuses, because we're in the worst timeline.

                                    Goodnight.

                                    D This user is from outside of this forum
                                    D This user is from outside of this forum
                                    deanequity@tweesecake.social
                                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                                    #96

                                    @ppatel @prism I hated that new Windows behavior. There's a setting to switch it, and I can't remember where itg is, but it should be more well-known than it is.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • B braillescreen@dragonscave.space

                                      @kimcrawley @prism If I may, here's a series of blog posts describing why blind people really can't use Linux reliably, as unfortunate as it is. I really wish things were different so I could run far away from Windows. https://fireborn.mataroa.blog/blog/i-want-to-love-linux-it-doesnt-love-me-back-post-1-built-for-control-but-not-for-people/

                                      jstark@caneandable.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                      jstark@caneandable.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                      jstark@caneandable.social
                                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                                      #97

                                      @BrailleScreen @prism well put

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • prism@infosec.exchangeP prism@infosec.exchange

                                        I'm more upset than I've been in a while.

                                        Windows 11 sets the default documents folder to onedrive\documents. Anything that gets saved there gets backed up to one drive. This includes various save games, all my Reaper stuff, and various other odds and ends that I like to, you know, save.

                                        To save disc space, OneDrive also defaults to files being online-only. They're not stored on your device, they're just listed there. So despite what they call it, this is in fact not a backup at all, because it doesn't create an extra copy. It is actually just transferring your most precious, irreplacible, personal files to Microsoft in the background, and trusting that nothing will happen. You can see where this is going, but just to underline the point with a bleeding fucking dagger, I did not ask for any of this, I just clicked save like I have done for the last twenty or so years of my life using Windows.

                                        Since I don't care about and have never intentionally used onedrive, I signed out of it. Flash forward six months, the files that I thought were on my computer (because I can go see them there in the folder) are in fact gone from my hard drive, and also Onedrive nuked them from orbit.

                                        Years of my life, gone without a trace. Thanks so much, Microsoft. Whoever came up with all those ideas probably got massive performance bonuses, because we're in the worst timeline.

                                        Goodnight.

                                        bms@mastodon.bsd.cafeB This user is from outside of this forum
                                        bms@mastodon.bsd.cafeB This user is from outside of this forum
                                        bms@mastodon.bsd.cafe
                                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                                        #98

                                        @prism I realize this is going to be utterly Homer saying to Marge "Sorry doesn't put fingers back on the hand", but: the constant dark patterning is getting tedious and actual people get hurt. The first thing I did when I got a Win11 laptop to dip my toe back into tech practically 2yr ago was ... remove OneDrive because I was using Win11 without an Internet connection, or with a very sporadic, slow and expensive one. Microsoft's obscene sense of entitlement as an organisation with respect to its user base is on par with actual real life narcissist NPD sufferers. It's not impossible to do, previously in life I used Spideroak for this before it mutated into dancing dogshit, but much about Win11 is whack-a-mole.

                                        I now use Cryptomator with rclone and a dedicated, non-US jurisdiction, offsite non-big-tech provider to do the job OneDrive fails at epically, or in a "Give us your dox or the data gets it!" privacy-abrogating way.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • wpeckham@social.linux.pizzaW wpeckham@social.linux.pizza

                                          @prism I understand that because of accessibility issues, Linux may not be a solid option, but I still stand by the advice: Never trust Microsoft. Although, I guess the corollary would be if you care about it, back it up. Because if you don't have multiple backups it's only a question of when you will lose it, not if. Of course that doesn't help retrieve what you've lost after it's gone, but it helps prevent you from having to face that issue in the future.

                                          prism@infosec.exchangeP This user is from outside of this forum
                                          prism@infosec.exchangeP This user is from outside of this forum
                                          prism@infosec.exchange
                                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                                          #99

                                          @wpeckham So who can I trust?

                                          wpeckham@social.linux.pizzaW 1 Reply Last reply
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