It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
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@theeclecticdyslexic @tobyjaffey @plexus Being someone who doesn't drink has similar effects some places.
@ariaflame @tobyjaffey @plexus Any time you do differently to an insecure person.
I've experienced criticism for trying hard to abstain from:
- closed software and socials
- alcohol
- LLMs
- fast fashionI don't even abstain from these, just reduce:
- dairy
- meat
- luxury travel
- natural gas
- personal gas vehicle useI simply openly acknowledged the existence of:
- easily preventable illness or injury
- climate change
- perverse profit incentives
- racism
- exploitation of the global south -
It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus there's the "doubters" too that just whittle you down over time. Yes the next major release I'm working on is taking forever, I'm aware. In fact I've documented why numerous times. But constantly posting "if it ever comes out" sure doesn't help my motivation at all...
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus paving roads with good intentions -
@xenophyte @plexus @tiefling They ran a really dumb campaign and she really wasn't anything to be happy about. The best thing she had going for her was that she wasn't Trump or some other hate filled crazy person.
I think they're short sighted maybe but I can't blame people who just can't get excited about the controlled opposition, and that's what she represented. Should have voted for her anyway but ...
@crazyeddie @plexus @tiefling Thank you for your reply, I am honestly interested what you disliked. A former attorney general and with Tim Walz, a former teacher and coach, faculty advisor. They had civil rights, LGBTQ+ rights, health care, increase of the minimum wage in their program. They wanted to limit immunity of a president for crimes committed in office… And so much more, link below.
What was dumb about their campaign (in the spirit of this dicussion here) especially when compared to the Trump campaign?
Link to the Harris/Walz program:
https://politifact.com/article/2024/sep/30/kamala-harris-2024-campaign-promises-here-are-her/
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@crazyeddie @plexus @tiefling Thank you for your reply, I am honestly interested what you disliked. A former attorney general and with Tim Walz, a former teacher and coach, faculty advisor. They had civil rights, LGBTQ+ rights, health care, increase of the minimum wage in their program. They wanted to limit immunity of a president for crimes committed in office… And so much more, link below.
What was dumb about their campaign (in the spirit of this dicussion here) especially when compared to the Trump campaign?
Link to the Harris/Walz program:
https://politifact.com/article/2024/sep/30/kamala-harris-2024-campaign-promises-here-are-her/
@crazyeddie @plexus @tiefling And here are Trumps promises, for comparison.
https://politifact.com/article/2024/sep/30/donald-trumps-2024-campaign-promises-heres-his-vis/
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus trolls abound. steady at the helm.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
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@plexus @bert_hubert it’s very similar to the antipattern among the queer community where it’s taken for granted that of course big, well-funded, mainstream cultural works aren’t going to be very queer, but when an independent queer author or studio puts out their plucky little piece of media, it gets put under a microscope and torn to shreds over every conceivable angle of criticism by the very people who say we need more queer media
@0xabad1dea @plexus @bert_hubert As we said back in my day, "Haters gonna hate". And you ignore them and keep doing your thing.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus I tried to collect some patterns of community-related non-constructive rhetorics some years back:
https://www.fordes.de/posts/disappointment_product_community.html
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@plexus @bert_hubert it’s very similar to the antipattern among the queer community where it’s taken for granted that of course big, well-funded, mainstream cultural works aren’t going to be very queer, but when an independent queer author or studio puts out their plucky little piece of media, it gets put under a microscope and torn to shreds over every conceivable angle of criticism by the very people who say we need more queer media
@0xabad1dea @plexus @bert_hubert
If I remember correctly, this was an important point in Daub’s book "Cancel Culture transfer" – yes, people get "canceled", but it happens inside of small activist(-ish) communities among community members.
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@crazyeddie @plexus @tiefling Extends also to politics. Insignificant issues are blown out of proportion for the Green parties, conservatives with mud still sticking to their boots benefit. This is also why there is Trump. Standards were at an impossible level for Kamala Harris, and 40 % decided not to vote at all.
@xenophyte @crazyeddie @plexus @tiefling
She was Genocide Joe's accomplice. Her opponent was thief and a liar. It was a Hobson's choice, even worse than the usual BS we are told is "democracy".
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@crazyeddie @plexus @tiefling Thank you for your reply, I am honestly interested what you disliked. A former attorney general and with Tim Walz, a former teacher and coach, faculty advisor. They had civil rights, LGBTQ+ rights, health care, increase of the minimum wage in their program. They wanted to limit immunity of a president for crimes committed in office… And so much more, link below.
What was dumb about their campaign (in the spirit of this dicussion here) especially when compared to the Trump campaign?
Link to the Harris/Walz program:
https://politifact.com/article/2024/sep/30/kamala-harris-2024-campaign-promises-here-are-her/
@xenophyte @plexus @tiefling That's the thing. Put anything up against Trump and it looks good.
Her status and history as former prosecutor weren't positives for me.
Put anyone next to Trump and they'll look a whole lot brighter, but I do think going onto FoX and getting trapped into that stupid discussion about whether she was calling half of America stupid was really dumb and showed she was actually just looking for the right thing to say politically rather than standing by any principles.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
I'm a FOSS developer. I write very small programs to handle money. I build apps to make them easier to use.
I'm entirely funded by donations, or the programs I wrote.
I don't touch securities, public offerings, private currencies, collectables or swaps (predictions). When people find out what I do, they block me because my industry is overrun with scammers lying for money.
When LLMs are done destroying FOSS, there will be people who block anyone still in technology.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus
Good criticism should be expressed to build people up, to improve. Its important to be open to accountability too, especially if the role you're doing effects others, considering the underlying power imbalance.Still, this critique of critics reminds me of a book from anarchists about what they call rigid radicalism. Its well worth the read. "Joyful Militancy
Building Thriving Resistance in Toxic Times" https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/joyful-militancy-bergman-montgomeryI read everyone's posts. I don't think encountering rudeness and trolls justifies shutting down most feedback. Although i understand the frustration of being taken for granted and of purity culture.
Quote from the book recc. , section "The limits of critique: from paranoia to potential":
"[...] Limits are often spoken of as if they are fixed, and paranoid reading specializes in locating them and pointing them out. But limits are never fixed. Limits are the always shifting edges of what we are, what we are capable of. To explore potential is to live right at these fluid edges. Affirmative reading is rooted in Spinoza’s insight that we do not know in advance what a body—or a movement or struggle—can do. This ignorance is what makes experimentation possible. Potential is the dimension of these unfolding encounters that can never be known beforehand.
To replace paranoid reading with affirmation is about activating a power complementary to critique, without giving up on critical thinking. Reading affirmatively and seeking out potentials can be a way for us to find new resonances and experiment with concepts in new ways. Critique—as the questioning of inherited certainties and habits—might be necessary to remove the obstacles to all this exploration. It might tear apart some of the rigidities that make experimentation difficult. But it can fall into a paranoid search for problems, detached from the immediacy of life and the potential of new encounters. Maybe some paranoia is necessary—just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get you. Maybe it is a question of dosage and mixture, timing and framing, of combining critique and curiosity, wariness and exploration. We are not sure."
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus one major, significant project rejected my sensible contribution because I could not show it conpiled on VMS. Same project had spent two years reviewing a documentation (clarification)patch... Based on text a lead developer suggested on the list. "So, would XYZ be correct? I asked. Yes, Send the PR, and I will approve that."
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus propose to call them
morality seagulls (n) those who swoop in and poop on a good project with unhelpful morality or virtue signaling.
Is there a point and would the outcome add value eventually? Yes.
Is it making things slow and icky? Also yes.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus that's why I keep this image handy, I believe it conveys the correct amount of respect.
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@0xabad1dea @plexus @bert_hubert
If I remember correctly, this was an important point in Daub’s book "Cancel Culture transfer" – yes, people get "canceled", but it happens inside of small activist(-ish) communities among community members.
@simulo @0xabad1dea @plexus @bert_hubert This resonates. Even liberals/lefties are quick to pounce. It’s #supremacy culture.sadly, no one or group is immune to it.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus we once had something beautiful, you start a project, people get interested, get involved, work together to make it work, or better, slowly, steady, an amazing project becomes real.
Now we have a bunch of people who just want to argue when the feature they want because reasons isn't in the project and hurl abuse.
Someone hit the reset button, we'll try again.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus I totally agree for the most part. People need to look at things in a bigger context, and contrast with what the companies do. Whether it’s talking about UI or security or project speed/scope etc
The one exception is for bigots and nazis. FOSS has a big problem with these guys, DHH is the current topic guy, but Stallman is still kicking around as well as other lower profile losers. And we’ve gotta stop supporting them as a community (whether that’s code or cash). Unfortunately if a foss project is okay working with (or under) a Nazi, then that project should wither and die.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with saying that, especially since supporters of omarchy/dhh use similar arguments and wording (especially invoking the word ‘ethically’) to justify their support. Humans should always take precedence over code projects.
