It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
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@crazyeddie @plexus @tiefling Thank you for your reply, I am honestly interested what you disliked. A former attorney general and with Tim Walz, a former teacher and coach, faculty advisor. They had civil rights, LGBTQ+ rights, health care, increase of the minimum wage in their program. They wanted to limit immunity of a president for crimes committed in office… And so much more, link below.
What was dumb about their campaign (in the spirit of this dicussion here) especially when compared to the Trump campaign?
Link to the Harris/Walz program:
https://politifact.com/article/2024/sep/30/kamala-harris-2024-campaign-promises-here-are-her/
@xenophyte @plexus @tiefling That's the thing. Put anything up against Trump and it looks good.
Her status and history as former prosecutor weren't positives for me.
Put anyone next to Trump and they'll look a whole lot brighter, but I do think going onto FoX and getting trapped into that stupid discussion about whether she was calling half of America stupid was really dumb and showed she was actually just looking for the right thing to say politically rather than standing by any principles.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
I'm a FOSS developer. I write very small programs to handle money. I build apps to make them easier to use.
I'm entirely funded by donations, or the programs I wrote.
I don't touch securities, public offerings, private currencies, collectables or swaps (predictions). When people find out what I do, they block me because my industry is overrun with scammers lying for money.
When LLMs are done destroying FOSS, there will be people who block anyone still in technology.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus
Good criticism should be expressed to build people up, to improve. Its important to be open to accountability too, especially if the role you're doing effects others, considering the underlying power imbalance.Still, this critique of critics reminds me of a book from anarchists about what they call rigid radicalism. Its well worth the read. "Joyful Militancy
Building Thriving Resistance in Toxic Times" https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/joyful-militancy-bergman-montgomeryI read everyone's posts. I don't think encountering rudeness and trolls justifies shutting down most feedback. Although i understand the frustration of being taken for granted and of purity culture.
Quote from the book recc. , section "The limits of critique: from paranoia to potential":
"[...] Limits are often spoken of as if they are fixed, and paranoid reading specializes in locating them and pointing them out. But limits are never fixed. Limits are the always shifting edges of what we are, what we are capable of. To explore potential is to live right at these fluid edges. Affirmative reading is rooted in Spinoza’s insight that we do not know in advance what a body—or a movement or struggle—can do. This ignorance is what makes experimentation possible. Potential is the dimension of these unfolding encounters that can never be known beforehand.
To replace paranoid reading with affirmation is about activating a power complementary to critique, without giving up on critical thinking. Reading affirmatively and seeking out potentials can be a way for us to find new resonances and experiment with concepts in new ways. Critique—as the questioning of inherited certainties and habits—might be necessary to remove the obstacles to all this exploration. It might tear apart some of the rigidities that make experimentation difficult. But it can fall into a paranoid search for problems, detached from the immediacy of life and the potential of new encounters. Maybe some paranoia is necessary—just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get you. Maybe it is a question of dosage and mixture, timing and framing, of combining critique and curiosity, wariness and exploration. We are not sure."
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus one major, significant project rejected my sensible contribution because I could not show it conpiled on VMS. Same project had spent two years reviewing a documentation (clarification)patch... Based on text a lead developer suggested on the list. "So, would XYZ be correct? I asked. Yes, Send the PR, and I will approve that."
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus propose to call them
morality seagulls (n) those who swoop in and poop on a good project with unhelpful morality or virtue signaling.
Is there a point and would the outcome add value eventually? Yes.
Is it making things slow and icky? Also yes.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus that's why I keep this image handy, I believe it conveys the correct amount of respect.
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@0xabad1dea @plexus @bert_hubert
If I remember correctly, this was an important point in Daub’s book "Cancel Culture transfer" – yes, people get "canceled", but it happens inside of small activist(-ish) communities among community members.
@simulo @0xabad1dea @plexus @bert_hubert This resonates. Even liberals/lefties are quick to pounce. It’s #supremacy culture.sadly, no one or group is immune to it.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus we once had something beautiful, you start a project, people get interested, get involved, work together to make it work, or better, slowly, steady, an amazing project becomes real.
Now we have a bunch of people who just want to argue when the feature they want because reasons isn't in the project and hurl abuse.
Someone hit the reset button, we'll try again.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus I totally agree for the most part. People need to look at things in a bigger context, and contrast with what the companies do. Whether it’s talking about UI or security or project speed/scope etc
The one exception is for bigots and nazis. FOSS has a big problem with these guys, DHH is the current topic guy, but Stallman is still kicking around as well as other lower profile losers. And we’ve gotta stop supporting them as a community (whether that’s code or cash). Unfortunately if a foss project is okay working with (or under) a Nazi, then that project should wither and die.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with saying that, especially since supporters of omarchy/dhh use similar arguments and wording (especially invoking the word ‘ethically’) to justify their support. Humans should always take precedence over code projects.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus This very much reminds me of that cartoon: Daughter: “daddy what where you doing in your days when everyone started to realise climate change was becoming a disaster?!”
Daddy: “Mainly pointing out to vegetarians that they were still wearing leather shoes.”
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@teq i cant see what this is responding to, so maybe doesn't' fully connect, but have you read this short piece by William C. Anderson? (came out yesterday) https://prismreports.org/2026/09/16/online-left-fascism-community/
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@plexus Similarly, saying "I'm vegan" is usually met with frothing vitriol about leather belts or consuming honey. Something about it makes people defensive and then they point out your flaws instead of acknowledging their own. https://www.bps.org.uk/psychologist/vegan-resistance
@tobyjaffey
This is true, never mind people raging about vegetarians, when there are actual billionaire owners of multinational abattoir companies in the world.
@plexus -
@plexus The same happens for things like choosing cycling or public transit over motordom, or trying your best to eat local/seasonal food, etc. "Greta Thunberg took a jet once so clearly everything she says is wrong."
@jfcaron
Don't get me started on climate action. To paraphrase George Monbiot; If climate activists live ordinary modest lives, they're told they're hypocrites for using any fossil fuels whatsoever. If they grow their own food and live in a yurt they get told their weirdos and don't understand the normal world.
And whatever you do, it's not enough, or far too ambitious.
#climate #ClimateCollapse #environment
@plexus -
@plexus I am entertained by how in comments to this there's a lot of support, but also just a hint of that very energy you called out.
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also to be clear, I posted this because I saw this happen (again) to someone else on Fedi, not because it happened to me. I have experienced this, but it doesn't happen too often. Partly because I'm very protective of that sort of thing, and immediately shut it down.
I will do a lot of open source and other volunteer work, it's always freely and joyfully given. But as soon as you come in with expectations or feel entitled to my time it's over in a heartbeat. I have zero fucks to give for that.
@plexus who was the person mistreating others? I have a behaviour improvement to give them.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus it's tangential only, but keeping people marginalized also has the effect of reducing the cost of bribery
the ai companies can throw around a billion dollars at this point like it's a joke, but dhh and company can completely overthrow the foss ecosystem to the tune of tens of millions
(a billion is basically that a hundred times over)
you gotta have solidarity, most of all, so that the enemy can't be the only means of survival anymore
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... or offer your selfhosted services to others and prepare being accused of ... well probably trying to spy on them.
@gustl @kybernetes77 @plexus I think that might be preferable to everybody ignoring it. It means somebody noticed.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
This applies to non-profits and volunteer work in other fields, too.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
Sad to say, but this has been going on for ages. Way back in the Before Times, I used to do a little bit of ray-tracing with POV-Ray. I ran across something on Usenet, I think that they were going to release a new version that was a major upgrade Real Soon Now, and it was going to be available on Genie. And they were going to have the source code available too!
So I got a Genie subscription, got the new POV-Ray, did stupid things because I didn't understand, and sometimes got frustrated. My C knowledge at the time was pretty much non-existent.
So I went to the Genie forums to see if there were any discussions about how to do ""X", or anything neat I could try at home.
Sadly, there was very little, if any. Nearly every message was someone bitching about how it did "X" improperly, how "Y" was missing, and "Z" was stupid.
That blew my mind. IT'S FREE! THEY GAVE US THE SOURCE CODE! FIX IT AND CHANGE IT!
It got to the point where the POV-Ray team basically said something like "Peace out. We'll still be providing files, but we don't want to talk to you anymore." At least that's how I remember it. That was 30 years ago or so, parts of it are fuzzy now.
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It's kind of infuriating how, as soon as you try to do good, you're held to impossible standards.
People are shit and companies are shit all the time and nobody bats an eye. But do volunteer work for your FOSS community, start a project that tries to do things more ethically, just be visibly not shit, and people left and right come out of the woodwork to point out all the ways in which you are not being absolutely flawless and perfect, and all the work that needs doing that you're not yet taking upon you.
The people actually doing the work are also the people who are being asked to do even more, and who are being critised the most. It's a really insiduous pattern and we all need to be better at recognising it and squashing it.
@plexus There are people that do, and people who talk. People who act, and people who react. Just be the former. Why mar what you've done by responding to the criticism of those that haven't done anything? The doing is already the talking. And if doing the thing attracts naysayers, then that's just the work being done.
