One of the key negative impacts of mandatory bike helmet laws is that they are essentially a death sentence for bike share programs.
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@ColmDonoghue @s0 @juliette (and loneliness from staying secluded)
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@juliette Thanks, loads of citations to indulge me there! My only regret about cycling is that I didn’t get back into it sooner, but looking back I recognise a big part of that is the hostile road environment we’ve created.
As an aside, on my quick read I don’t think it mentioned the change in attitudes towards individual cyclists wearing safety gear (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1369847823001018). I know when I did a few rides with and without a helmet it felt the closer and fastest (and more aggressive) passes were when I was helmeted.
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@raymaccarthy @enobacon @juliette 100% agree about driving standards. I learned to drive 32yrs ago and I’ve noticed a difference. Not entirely sure what it is but everyone seems to drive much closer/faster with very little respect to others on the roads, cyclists get caught the crossfire. Maybe it’s because there are more vehicles on the roads these days and the vast majority of roads are no longer fit for purpose. This has nothing to do with cycling helmets though, accidents happen anywhere.
@JaxxAI Long Covid, economic pressures, info overload generally, “Back In My Day —“, “that rule is stupid so I’m going to ignore it”.
Also in my parents’ case, “We can save nearly an hour by driving only 5 or 10 mph higher on the motorway”, with their kids in the back, ffs.Where’s that (Kiwi?) traffic safety ad where the two drivers stop time before a collision, one begging the main road driver to slow down, and it’s too fast?
@raymaccarthy @enobacon @juliette -
@raymaccarthy + many many many drivers look at their phones instead of the road!
Probably depends on location, but it was uncompareably safer to cycle on side of the road in 2000 than it is now, mainly because of this.
@krahabors HONESTLY YES WHAT THE FUCK?!? Nearly got scraped by a guy looking straight down AS HE WAS EXITING A ROUNDABOUT. Fuck sake
@raymaccarthy @JaxxAI @enobacon @juliette -
@krahabors @JaxxAI @enobacon @juliette
Also vehicles with super big touch screen instead of physical controls you can operate without taking eyes of road.
Also distracting SatNav that isn't needed and the user has no idea it has an off.@raymaccarthy I would plaster this giant on the side of buildings if I could. Omfg @krahabors @JaxxAI @enobacon @juliette
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Where are you talking about in particular?
The only helmet laws I've seen are for children or for ebike riders, usually on higher power bikes.
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@juliette What annoys me most when people instist on helmet mandates is that the only focus on injury reduction when the discussion should be about reducing crashes. Helmets do nothing to prevent cars from hitting cyclists. Proper bike infrastructure does.
@diacritter @juliette ah! It’s victim-blaming / blame-shifting. Like “why didn’t you make me damage you less when I let my vehicle crash into you?”
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Where are you talking about in particular?
The only helmet laws I've seen are for children or for ebike riders, usually on higher power bikes.
@number6 they’re regularly debated in many places for all bikes. There is a mandatory helmet law in Australia that has been the subject of many studies.
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@s0 @MxVerda @ColmDonoghue @juliette It's not the same thing. Seatbelts are included in every car. There is no inconvenience associated with bringing your own seatbelt every time you want to drive.
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One of the key negative impacts of mandatory bike helmet laws is that they are essentially a death sentence for bike share programs.
Those programs win because they are convenient and encourage spontaneous cycling. That just doesn’t work if a person has to carry a helmet everywhere just in case they decide to cycle. Tourists are not going to pack a bulky helmet. Shared helmets are a hygiene nightmare.
Protect cyclists with bike infrastructure. That’s what works.
#helmetsNot only for #bikeSharing. #Cycling is attractive for me, because it's as convenient as walking, using the public transport, or driving a car — no extra clothes needed. I just get on my #bike and ride.
If a special #dresscode were required, like wearing a #helmet, I'ld probably stop using my #bicycle. And e.g. buy a #car, so I don't have to follow silly dresscodes.
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@enobacon @baz @juliette
Subsidise bike share, or a parasite rental company?
Or should the city council buy and rent bikes?
Bike subsidies to purchase are a failure,
Or offer free public transport with free parking outside the city? That's applicable to far more people.I think the term "bike share" is misleading. There is a bigger picture to see of bike infrastructure, changing facilities in shops & offices for staff. Weather. Regular free public transport serving all areas 24x7.
@raymaccarthy The "About Here" YouTube channel did a really good video comparing/contrasting bikeshare schemes across North America. Going by memory, the successful ones had the municipality funding capital costs (eg bikes, docking stations). The unsuccessful ones had dockless bikes dumped on them by startup companies with no municipal cooperation/oversight.
In Toronto, bikeshare is now operated by the Toronto Parking Authority (a gov't agency), and usage has soared.
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One of the key negative impacts of mandatory bike helmet laws is that they are essentially a death sentence for bike share programs.
Those programs win because they are convenient and encourage spontaneous cycling. That just doesn’t work if a person has to carry a helmet everywhere just in case they decide to cycle. Tourists are not going to pack a bulky helmet. Shared helmets are a hygiene nightmare.
Protect cyclists with bike infrastructure. That’s what works.
#helmetsAs a compromise I can get behind mandatory e-scooter helmet laws. Oh no, e-scooter share programs are impacted? Woe woe
(But no mandatory bike helmets, obviously)
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@Arapalla @marco_m_aus_f @juliette
People don't usually die because of head injuries, people usually die of cardiovascular disease.
Decreasing "unsafe" biking use in favour of "safe" car driving kills people, this is a pretty lethal modal shift.
But, of course, there's no easily seen direct causation so it doesn't speak to our mammalian brains.
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@s0 if you want people to be safe, you should advocate for mandatory car helmets. Do you have any idea how many traumatic brain injuries car occupants suffer? It's more than all traffic-related bicycle deaths per year, and none of them were wearing helmets.
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@s0 if you want people to be safe, you should advocate for mandatory car helmets. Do you have any idea how many traumatic brain injuries car occupants suffer? It's more than all traffic-related bicycle deaths per year, and none of them were wearing helmets.
@enobacon @s0 yeah, logically, if cyclists HAVE to wear helmets, then so should EVERY single occupant of every single vehicle on the road, and, just to make sure that all of them are REALLY safe, a 20mph speed on ALL roads (including motorways/freeways), enforced by immediate confiscation of offender's vehicle... That's not to say that cyclists can't wear helmets, but, if you go to countries which accept cycling as a viable form of transport, many of them won't be wearing helmets.
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@lerk @juliette "science is split on this subjet" with the inference: therefore listen to my viewpoint, don't wear a helmet.
In everything he said there the helmet isn't the problem. The problem is effectively peoples attitude towards them.
After searching around, it seems very much like he is misrepresenting his case on purpose: yeah, older research suggests legislation making helmets mandatory will lower the amount of cyclists...
1/3
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@lerk @juliette "science is split on this subjet" with the inference: therefore listen to my viewpoint, don't wear a helmet.
In everything he said there the helmet isn't the problem. The problem is effectively peoples attitude towards them.
After searching around, it seems very much like he is misrepresenting his case on purpose: yeah, older research suggests legislation making helmets mandatory will lower the amount of cyclists...
1/3
@lerk @juliette And I think Cyklist forbundet (the Danish cykling Association) is right in their approach to promote the use of helmets, but to make it voluntary, and not illegal to cycle without one.
He is right on the point that death due to inactivity is a much bigger problem. However, do a bit of online searching and you'll quickly find that people wearing a helmet are 68% or so more likely to avoid serious head injury than those who don't.... 2/3
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@lerk @juliette And I think Cyklist forbundet (the Danish cykling Association) is right in their approach to promote the use of helmets, but to make it voluntary, and not illegal to cycle without one.
He is right on the point that death due to inactivity is a much bigger problem. However, do a bit of online searching and you'll quickly find that people wearing a helmet are 68% or so more likely to avoid serious head injury than those who don't.... 2/3
@lerk @juliette so while the argument "the most important thing is to cycle at all" within this context is correct, saying the helmet does not help when you are in an accident is simply wrong.
Own the decision not to wear one instead: "I know i am more likely to suffer head injury, but its a risk im willing to take"
And stop misrepresenting the facts. 3/3
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One of the key negative impacts of mandatory bike helmet laws is that they are essentially a death sentence for bike share programs.
Those programs win because they are convenient and encourage spontaneous cycling. That just doesn’t work if a person has to carry a helmet everywhere just in case they decide to cycle. Tourists are not going to pack a bulky helmet. Shared helmets are a hygiene nightmare.
Protect cyclists with bike infrastructure. That’s what works.
#helmets@juliette Is this sort of the same discussion as shielded vs. visible bike lanes? Hiding the lane between the parked cars and the sidewalk is known to be much less safe, because the lack of visibility leads to turning collisions, which is how you actually get hit on a bike. But the perception of safety might induce more people to cycle using deficient infrastructure. Is that a good thing?
