RE: https://pdx.social/@hellomiakoda/115702135046252341
-
RE: https://pdx.social/@hellomiakoda/115702135046252341
I was talking about this earlier in the week with @JimmyB, in the circle of people I know irl I'm probably in the top 10% or so for the amount of thought I put into the ethical consequences of my actions (car free, flight free vegan, try to buy secondhand and avoid single use items etc) whereas on Mastodon I'm probably in the bottom 10% (still use Meta and Google products, buy from Amazon, feed my cats meat).
-
RE: https://pdx.social/@hellomiakoda/115702135046252341
I was talking about this earlier in the week with @JimmyB, in the circle of people I know irl I'm probably in the top 10% or so for the amount of thought I put into the ethical consequences of my actions (car free, flight free vegan, try to buy secondhand and avoid single use items etc) whereas on Mastodon I'm probably in the bottom 10% (still use Meta and Google products, buy from Amazon, feed my cats meat).
And honestly the inevitable barrage of complaints I get when I post a link to Substack or something is incredibly dispiriting. It has though really made me think hard about how I come across talking about ethical choices to people in real life so as not to have the same effect, so in an odd way it's been really helpful.
-
And honestly the inevitable barrage of complaints I get when I post a link to Substack or something is incredibly dispiriting. It has though really made me think hard about how I come across talking about ethical choices to people in real life so as not to have the same effect, so in an odd way it's been really helpful.
We often don't seem to realise that there are two different reasons people don't make the more ethical choice: 1) they don't know how bad the thing is or 2) they already know but don't have the capacity in some way to do the alternative. And certainly the default assumption on here seems to be that it's number one, so charitably people assume repeating that it's a problem would be helpful. (Uncharitably people might be trying to show off how much they know about the problem)
-
We often don't seem to realise that there are two different reasons people don't make the more ethical choice: 1) they don't know how bad the thing is or 2) they already know but don't have the capacity in some way to do the alternative. And certainly the default assumption on here seems to be that it's number one, so charitably people assume repeating that it's a problem would be helpful. (Uncharitably people might be trying to show off how much they know about the problem)
But when the issue is 2 that really doesn't help and kind of just makes people too exhausted to talk about stuff if they feel they're just going to be told off for it.
-
We often don't seem to realise that there are two different reasons people don't make the more ethical choice: 1) they don't know how bad the thing is or 2) they already know but don't have the capacity in some way to do the alternative. And certainly the default assumption on here seems to be that it's number one, so charitably people assume repeating that it's a problem would be helpful. (Uncharitably people might be trying to show off how much they know about the problem)
@afewbugs I tend to assume #2, actually, and I think most people who do are less inclined to comment so there's going to be some bias in the type of responses you get.
The digital stuff is trivial to me, but the practical everyday stuff is harder for me.
-
@afewbugs I tend to assume #2, actually, and I think most people who do are less inclined to comment so there's going to be some bias in the type of responses you get.
The digital stuff is trivial to me, but the practical everyday stuff is harder for me.
For example, I have three kids aged 6, 10 and 14 - and even on a non-vegetarian or vegan diet there's not a single dish I can cook which everyone likes. Except pancakes, but I can't cook pancakes every day.
Every time I try to cook vegetarian or vegan the majority don't like it, sometimes I am the only one eating it, and that's incredibly demotivating.
You only have so many matches to burn on any given day or week, and sometimes I don't have matches enough for the ethical choice if it actively makes MY life worse.
-
F folfdk@helvede.net shared this topic
-
For example, I have three kids aged 6, 10 and 14 - and even on a non-vegetarian or vegan diet there's not a single dish I can cook which everyone likes. Except pancakes, but I can't cook pancakes every day.
Every time I try to cook vegetarian or vegan the majority don't like it, sometimes I am the only one eating it, and that's incredibly demotivating.
You only have so many matches to burn on any given day or week, and sometimes I don't have matches enough for the ethical choice if it actively makes MY life worse.
@EvilCartyen it's hard with kids and their restricted tastes. We sort of have a standard script now when friends or family with children come round "We'll be serving vegan food for the adults, but of course you can bring round ham rolls/sausages/plain pasta with grated cheese/whatever it is your children are willing to eat now for them"
-
But when the issue is 2 that really doesn't help and kind of just makes people too exhausted to talk about stuff if they feel they're just going to be told off for it.
@afewbugs It's tiring when the only accepted public persona you are allowed to be is a Perfect.
Still fine when people just quietly judge. It becomes problematic when it derails a conversation.
Earlier this week a quick Mastodon post I made (have you sat on a cow) took off. After ~500 boosts I started receiving shit, mostly via DM. Turns out a "vegan influencer" sub-toothed, calling me an animal abuser. I ended up just muting the thread. No opinions were changed but dialogue was shut down.
-
@EvilCartyen it's hard with kids and their restricted tastes. We sort of have a standard script now when friends or family with children come round "We'll be serving vegan food for the adults, but of course you can bring round ham rolls/sausages/plain pasta with grated cheese/whatever it is your children are willing to eat now for them"
The important thing, I feel, is to treat people with compassion. Something about online spaces, even mastodon, makes that hard to do.
I think you're bang on with this thread; I am certain EVERYONE here knows that it'd be better not to fly, eat less or no meat, migrate all digital presences to independent self-hosted tech, switch to linux, etc.
But for a variety of practical reasons we're not doing all of these in our personal lives, and it's not because we're not aware - it's because Life Is Hard and we're trying to do our best within the constraints of our lives.
I am thrilled that vegetarian and vegan options are becoming more widely available; eventually they will be so common that it will be easier for me to make the ethical choice. I can't right now if I want my kids to eat, but eventually we'll get there.
In the same manner, I will be happy to help anyone do something about their digital lives - bit by bit we'll get there. We've come SO far, we're so close now.
-
@afewbugs It's tiring when the only accepted public persona you are allowed to be is a Perfect.
Still fine when people just quietly judge. It becomes problematic when it derails a conversation.
Earlier this week a quick Mastodon post I made (have you sat on a cow) took off. After ~500 boosts I started receiving shit, mostly via DM. Turns out a "vegan influencer" sub-toothed, calling me an animal abuser. I ended up just muting the thread. No opinions were changed but dialogue was shut down.
I've sat on a cow, it didn't give a shit. I know that's not the issue we're on about here, but I think you need to be quite removed from how cows behave if you think it gives a damn about a kid being perched on its back for a few minutes.
Anyway, here's an interaction hierarchy in order of preference:
1. People who inspire me with stories about how they've made positivt change in their own lives
2. People who ask me kindly and with interest if I've ever thought about making a postive change and listen with compassion to the reply
3. People who blindly assert that Choice X is much much better than whatever I'm doing
4.
5.
6.
(...)
999. People who give me shit for my choices without knowing a thing about my life and the circumstances. -
For example, I have three kids aged 6, 10 and 14 - and even on a non-vegetarian or vegan diet there's not a single dish I can cook which everyone likes. Except pancakes, but I can't cook pancakes every day.
Every time I try to cook vegetarian or vegan the majority don't like it, sometimes I am the only one eating it, and that's incredibly demotivating.
You only have so many matches to burn on any given day or week, and sometimes I don't have matches enough for the ethical choice if it actively makes MY life worse.
@EvilCartyen @afewbugs That's the curse of availability. On our farm, we were told that we had to eat whatever was put on the table.
-
@EvilCartyen @afewbugs That's the curse of availability. On our farm, we were told that we had to eat whatever was put on the table.
@nicolegoebel @EvilCartyen I'm not sure about this as a strategy honestly, being forced to eat things they didn't like is how a few of my friends ended up with eating disorders
-
@nicolegoebel @EvilCartyen I'm not sure about this as a strategy honestly, being forced to eat things they didn't like is how a few of my friends ended up with eating disorders
Works on some kids, not on others. Worked ok for me, but my sister ended up with a lifelong complicated relationship with food.
Don't want to repeat that. Food should be a positive, happy thing to share, not something which brings misery.
