Have you heard of Apple's decision on the rollout of Siri AI in Europe?
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One more reason for sane US citizens to migrate to Europe:)
@FrancoisPrague @EUCommission If only there were a way to do this that didn't involve a ton of red tape and tens of thousands of dollars.
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@mr_harm @richlv @EUCommission fair enough yes, they should be held to the law. I just think that should not be a law, at least not at this extent. That’s what I’m advocating for here. Just as I will advocate to apple to do the right thing for their customers and offer them choice.
From my point of view they’re both wrong
Apple should offer it because the market demands it and the government bodies should not meddle so much.@webjac @richlv @EUCommission the point here where apple does not want to comply is that they have to give third parties access to the APIs to offer a similar product on their platform.
Tell me how that is not sensible. They wanted to delay these APIs for 18 month while already offering their product, making adoption even worse for their competitors. Tell me how it was not sensible to say no to that. They could have just released the tools at the same time.
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@mr_harm @EUCommission @gklka Well, Apple users in the EU had access to similar features before the DMA, so it’s likely that some aspects of the DMA need to be reconsidered.
@zsolt @EUCommission @gklka yeah google tlmade their product DMA compliant in the first place. Google is already on the market and we know Siri is Gemini. Again. It is apples fault.
Don't complain about the referee when your team just got a deserved penalty.
Edit: misread the comment a bit. Which features are you talking about that were there before? It was called Siri, yes, but that is about it
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@zsolt @mr_harm @EUCommission @gklka Why not take the other position - that predatory companies should be reconsidered?
@richlv @zsolt @EUCommission @gklka yeah the emotions some people have talking about a product are crazy sometimes.
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if you follow EUCommission the comments underneath is always a sea of reply guys whining and high holy "extremely serious" outrage... on stupid bullshit premises
they're trolls
it's fake astroturfed discontent
they work an anti-EU agenda
they may not even be in the EU (their profiles can lie about where they are from)
they will use any premise to attack
here it is: "how dare you question holy Apple!"
it's lying fake bullshit
attacking the #EU is their real agenda
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@EUCommission it's not for you to choose what options a provider give us. If we trust Apple to give us the right choice, it should be our choice as consumer to buy their products with the feature set complete.
You meddling with a free market and telling a private enterprise how they should build their products is a scary thing for a regulatory body to do.
let the market choose on its own.
@webjac @EUCommission History has constantly shown that market decisions are rubbish for the people.
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@zsolt @EUCommission @gklka yeah google tlmade their product DMA compliant in the first place. Google is already on the market and we know Siri is Gemini. Again. It is apples fault.
Don't complain about the referee when your team just got a deserved penalty.
Edit: misread the comment a bit. Which features are you talking about that were there before? It was called Siri, yes, but that is about it
@mr_harm @EUCommission @gklka Siri utilizes a family of models developed by Google. However, reusing core model technology is not equivalent to the harness surrounding the assistant. Therefore, the availability of Gemini in the EU has no relation on Siri’s availability. (1/3)
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@mr_harm @EUCommission @gklka Siri utilizes a family of models developed by Google. However, reusing core model technology is not equivalent to the harness surrounding the assistant. Therefore, the availability of Gemini in the EU has no relation on Siri’s availability. (1/3)
Regarding your second question, there exists a general feature category called “Continuity,” primarily for integration features between devices (such as shared clipboard, iPhone mirroring, and AirDrop). (2/3)
@mr_harm @EUCommission @gklka -
Regarding your second question, there exists a general feature category called “Continuity,” primarily for integration features between devices (such as shared clipboard, iPhone mirroring, and AirDrop). (2/3)
@mr_harm @EUCommission @gklkaAll of these features were released simultaneously for us in the EU as they were for the rest of the world. Since the DMA, almost none of these newer features under this umbrella are accessible because they likely require compatibility with third-party devices. (3/3)
@mr_harm @EUCommission @gklka -
@danieldk @EUCommission they will come around eventually I hope. Trust me I want to be able to pick a different model. What worries me is a regulator meddling in unnecessarily.
Also in the end, the reality of the matter is that both Apple and the EU want to protect me, and I end up without the features I want. Let me be an adult, I can take care of myself and make my own choices.
@webjac @EUCommission Yes, but it is Apple who is taking away your choices here. If Apple had:
- Opened up the APIs to other providers.
- If they are concerned about privacy [1], added some toggles per provider what data you want to share and what not.It would be compliant with EU laws and you could pick your models today.
Apple only uses privacy as an excuse to shut out competition. If they cared, they had enabled E2E encryption for iCloud backups by default years ago.
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@webjac @EUCommission Yes, but it is Apple who is taking away your choices here. If Apple had:
- Opened up the APIs to other providers.
- If they are concerned about privacy [1], added some toggles per provider what data you want to share and what not.It would be compliant with EU laws and you could pick your models today.
Apple only uses privacy as an excuse to shut out competition. If they cared, they had enabled E2E encryption for iCloud backups by default years ago.
@webjac @EUCommission On the latter point, US law enforcement can request all your (e.g. through the CLOUD Act) iMessage and WhatsApp messages because probably most people you communicate with do not have ADP enabled.
If they really cared about privacy, they would close these trivial holes. But instead they have 'what happens on iPhone stays on iPhone', while your data goes to a cloud in reach of the US government with only encryption at rest.
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@zsolt @mr_harm @EUCommission @gklka Why not take the other position - that predatory companies should be reconsidered?
@richlv @mr_harm @EUCommission @gklka I don’t consider Apple predatory from their customer point of view. Of course they are profit oriented as any other corporation.
Since my workflow is centered around Apple devices and I like their products, I prefer using their devices. As a developer, I’m well-aware of the offerings of other companies, but I don’t like what they have.
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@tevo @danieldk @EUCommission according to them, for iPhone mirroring, they say that the EU regulators will ask them to also offer that for android.
And they “can’t” offer it to android.
The DMA requires paltform marked as marketplaces to offer the same apis they use to competitors, and that’s the rule they’re fighting with.
They say it’s privacy, but there’s a big “competitive advantage” component to it
@webjac @tevo @EUCommission That frankly seems like a nonsense argument. If it were true, they would also have to support AirDrop and other continuity features on Android.
The iPhone mirroring was one of their continuous attempts to try to rile up EU citizens against the DMA/DSA, which, judging from this discussion, they succeeded in to some extend.
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@danieldk @EUCommission they will come around eventually I hope. Trust me I want to be able to pick a different model. What worries me is a regulator meddling in unnecessarily.
Also in the end, the reality of the matter is that both Apple and the EU want to protect me, and I end up without the features I want. Let me be an adult, I can take care of myself and make my own choices.
@webjac @danieldk @EUCommission Since when does apple want to protect users? Ever since the iPhone they started claiming to protect users while tightening the leash.
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@d4v you have obviously missed the message here: Apple wants to take the choice from you, EU wants you to be able to choose. Simple as that. Saying "Damn EU I don't want to have a free choice give me my apple dictated device" sounds a bit ... lobotomized. @EUCommission
@Ilka4You @EUCommission No, it’s not. For the past decade, Apple’s features alone were perfectly fine, and we never needed any third parties involved in the core functions. They should just leave it that way. Forcing this change is as absurd as requiring car manufacturers to let you swap engines from other brands, just because we’re in the EU and supposedly must have the option to choose which engine we want in our car. How stupid that would be?
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@webjac @EUCommission Yes, but it is Apple who is taking away your choices here. If Apple had:
- Opened up the APIs to other providers.
- If they are concerned about privacy [1], added some toggles per provider what data you want to share and what not.It would be compliant with EU laws and you could pick your models today.
Apple only uses privacy as an excuse to shut out competition. If they cared, they had enabled E2E encryption for iCloud backups by default years ago.
@danieldk @EUCommission they both are. In the end I’m left with less choice
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@webjac @danieldk @EUCommission Since when does apple want to protect users? Ever since the iPhone they started claiming to protect users while tightening the leash.
@afx @danieldk @EUCommission since when does. A government want to protect their people? I’m suspicious of both!
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@Doomstrike a shortened clip is tailored for SM - who wants to watch multiple hours context to a simple topic on SM? (This is how long those sessions usually go.) Just use your common sense and research. It took me 3 seconds to find a 2 minute video with the complete topic for you - it doesn't add anything to the shortened version and if you want to make sure you are not given the full poicture, just research. 3 seconds is all it takes.
@EUCommission@Ilka4You @EUCommission
Thanks, I find the 3min clip so much better, framed with question etc.
The whole franken-clip thing that seems to be the norm everywhere I just find jarring.
Reminds me of Max Headroom (of which I wasn't a fan) -
Have you heard of Apple's decision on the rollout of Siri AI in Europe? Let's get the facts straight
️@EUCommission This makes me proud to be European. -
@EUCommission So the only US company that actually makes PRIVACY a sales argument is effectively blocked in the EU for using AI (from Google)?
So, in the EU I’m not allowed to make that decision by myself? If I decide to be in a walled garden, let me be in a walled garden.Sorry, but this all looks to me like failed damage control by the EU commission. I’ll have to move my iCloud to an Emirates iCloud to circumvent this paternalistic nonsense.
PS: the EU could have had it all if only policy makers would have realized that the Acorn computer was pure gold (back in 1985).
@Paul_Harts, you got it backwards.
You must first be given an option to choose, before you can decide to choose Apple/Google's walled garden.
Just to make it even clearer: If you're not given the possibility to choose, you cannot choose. You are forced.
If EU doesn't have such hard requirements, Apple (and other BigTech companies) will never ever do anything else than what pleases them alone.
By the way,, Europe do provide several sovereign European alternatives to iCloud as well. But it won't necessarily be too easy with iPhones, because Apple doesn't believe in giving their users freedom to choose for themselves.
Apple is the the guardian of paternalistic nonsense.
