The insanity of this is that Trump is funding a country who is supplying armaments to Iran, who the US is at war with.
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So, there are some possible options:
1. Trump's attention span is so sort and so narrow, he doesn't register this dichotomy.
2. There are people behind him suggesting shit to a compliant Trump who are architecting this incoherence for their own purposes.
Are there others I'm not seeing? Can you think of some frame in which the logic of this makes sense?
Really an extension of 2, but the people in charge are letting Trump tank himself - the Russian debacle is the stuff which happens when a genuinely stupid person makes some decisions unaided - so that they can remove him and put a comparatively statesman-like Vance in charge. After the midterms, and I'm going to take Jan 6th 2027 as the day it's put in progress.
Then they'll claim Murrica is back on track. It'll *look* normal at a superficial level, but obviously Vance won't actually undo anything, just refrain from additional chaos. The Dems will continue to take the money and hush up, and with a bit of wrangling, Vance will actually get 2.5 terms.
Being right will keep me warm around the post-apocalyptic campfires.
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So, there are some possible options:
1. Trump's attention span is so sort and so narrow, he doesn't register this dichotomy.
2. There are people behind him suggesting shit to a compliant Trump who are architecting this incoherence for their own purposes.
Are there others I'm not seeing? Can you think of some frame in which the logic of this makes sense?
@Remittancegirl In line with the original post you quoted, I think that Putin and his advisors realise Trump is moving further away from reality and needs to be squeezed as much as possible since his time of geopolitical influence is close to ending (he’ll remain in post longer, all decisions will come from others). Therefore, they’re maximising the use of kompromat while they can.
I imagine if he does alter tack on this one post mid-terms we get some anonymous source releasing material implicating Trump in illegal/nefarious acts. -
So, there are some possible options:
1. Trump's attention span is so sort and so narrow, he doesn't register this dichotomy.
2. There are people behind him suggesting shit to a compliant Trump who are architecting this incoherence for their own purposes.
Are there others I'm not seeing? Can you think of some frame in which the logic of this makes sense?
In essence, Trump's rise and enablement has been an incremental destruction of the hegemonic liberal western geopolitical order.
If I had been a Stalinist operative looking to destroy it, this would be a very successful outcome.
This is, in every way, what consecutive heads of the USSR and Mao would have dreamed of - this kind of collapse.
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@jaypeach53 And yet I don't think he's getting much adulation for this except from within his circle of toadies.
@Remittancegirl @jaypeach53 When’s he divorcing Melania so he can marry a horse he’s just made Secretary of State.
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@Remittancegirl In line with the original post you quoted, I think that Putin and his advisors realise Trump is moving further away from reality and needs to be squeezed as much as possible since his time of geopolitical influence is close to ending (he’ll remain in post longer, all decisions will come from others). Therefore, they’re maximising the use of kompromat while they can.
I imagine if he does alter tack on this one post mid-terms we get some anonymous source releasing material implicating Trump in illegal/nefarious acts.@spanghero I don't really buy the compromat angle. I think Trump is too far gone to care, and his followers are to brainwashed to care.
But ego manipulation, sure.
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@spanghero I don't really buy the compromat angle. I think Trump is too far gone to care, and his followers are to brainwashed to care.
But ego manipulation, sure.
@Remittancegirl The reason I think there’s kompromat is that he usually appears to respond to the last person he speaks to but in this instance it’s Russia all the way, regardless. In terms of the kompromat I don’t think it’s as salacious as some believe. I think it’ll be dubious and illegal financial deals over the decades.
Edit: which of course, doesn’t exclude manipulation of his ego. -
Really an extension of 2, but the people in charge are letting Trump tank himself - the Russian debacle is the stuff which happens when a genuinely stupid person makes some decisions unaided - so that they can remove him and put a comparatively statesman-like Vance in charge. After the midterms, and I'm going to take Jan 6th 2027 as the day it's put in progress.
Then they'll claim Murrica is back on track. It'll *look* normal at a superficial level, but obviously Vance won't actually undo anything, just refrain from additional chaos. The Dems will continue to take the money and hush up, and with a bit of wrangling, Vance will actually get 2.5 terms.
Being right will keep me warm around the post-apocalyptic campfires.
@Badgardener @Remittancegirl if you think #Vance is 'comparatively statesmanlike' I fear you're in for a painful disillusionment.
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In essence, Trump's rise and enablement has been an incremental destruction of the hegemonic liberal western geopolitical order.
If I had been a Stalinist operative looking to destroy it, this would be a very successful outcome.
This is, in every way, what consecutive heads of the USSR and Mao would have dreamed of - this kind of collapse.
@Remittancegirl I mean, yes, but let's remember he wouldn't be where he is without many, many factors associated: the destruction of the meagre measures of equity and equality that held the social fabric initiated by Reagan, the continuation by his successors of either party, the War on Terror hysteria and the police state measures by the GOP, the racist backlash against Obama that the GOP rode in on…
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@Remittancegirl I mean, yes, but let's remember he wouldn't be where he is without many, many factors associated: the destruction of the meagre measures of equity and equality that held the social fabric initiated by Reagan, the continuation by his successors of either party, the War on Terror hysteria and the police state measures by the GOP, the racist backlash against Obama that the GOP rode in on…
@Remittancegirl Nothing the Russians may have been involved with absolves at least a pair of generations of USAmericans of their willing embrace of the worst parts of their sociohistorical tendencies of racism, theocratic authoritarianism, and greedy selfishness.
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I hate to push this line, but I reckon the 'Russian asset' may need to be on the table here. What was the posited codename again? Russian for cheeseburger?
Krasnov. What I personally use to refer to him, because I avoid saying his name.
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RE: https://masto.ai/@Nonilex/117453794779199297
The insanity of this is that Trump is funding a country who is supplying armaments to Iran, who the US is at war with.
This is such a perfect illustration of the obscene veil of geopolitical nonsense when it's pulled back.
There are men who want to cling onto power. They will do anything, fund anyone, kill any number of civilians, ruin any number of healthy economies.... just to hang onto their own personal power a few minutes longer.
@Remittancegirl the Russians will manipulate the middle term elections big way.. he needs Congress and Senate to complete the remaining 45% of project 2025...
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@Badgardener @Remittancegirl if you think #Vance is 'comparatively statesmanlike' I fear you're in for a painful disillusionment.
@simon_brooke Vance is not going to fly. He doesn't have the persona appeal that Trump has for the the MAGA crowd. @Badgardener
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@Remittancegirl Nothing the Russians may have been involved with absolves at least a pair of generations of USAmericans of their willing embrace of the worst parts of their sociohistorical tendencies of racism, theocratic authoritarianism, and greedy selfishness.
@Illuminatus No question, but that was always present. Right?
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RE: https://masto.ai/@Nonilex/117453794779199297
The insanity of this is that Trump is funding a country who is supplying armaments to Iran, who the US is at war with.
This is such a perfect illustration of the obscene veil of geopolitical nonsense when it's pulled back.
There are men who want to cling onto power. They will do anything, fund anyone, kill any number of civilians, ruin any number of healthy economies.... just to hang onto their own personal power a few minutes longer.
@Remittancegirl every day I silently thank all the americans who did not vote for Kamala Harris. Their actions two years ago is what brought us all here, and we should be thankful and proud of what they did to us. /s
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In essence, Trump's rise and enablement has been an incremental destruction of the hegemonic liberal western geopolitical order.
If I had been a Stalinist operative looking to destroy it, this would be a very successful outcome.
This is, in every way, what consecutive heads of the USSR and Mao would have dreamed of - this kind of collapse.
I'm not ruling out contingency, of course. There were always the seeds of its own diminution nestled in the belly of the structure of the US. The UN never had any teeth because of the structure of vetos. The EU's unanimity provision was always problematic. Nato's overdependance on a single state has a built-in fragility.
All I'm saying is... instead of trying to psychologise the players, perhaps it is more helpful to look at the outcome and ask who benefits.
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@Remittancegirl every day I silently thank all the americans who did not vote for Kamala Harris. Their actions two years ago is what brought us all here, and we should be thankful and proud of what they did to us. /s
@unkx
I want you to notice that you have posted a statement that cannot be replied to with any coherence. -
In essence, Trump's rise and enablement has been an incremental destruction of the hegemonic liberal western geopolitical order.
If I had been a Stalinist operative looking to destroy it, this would be a very successful outcome.
This is, in every way, what consecutive heads of the USSR and Mao would have dreamed of - this kind of collapse.
@Remittancegirl I have a half-baked theory about this. But I'm just a rando, so feel free to disregard.
It makes sense of quite a lof of what is going on, which is both good (it has explanatory power) and bad (maybe it has too much explanatory power).
My theory in sum is that what we might call, for lack of a much more precise and lengthy characterisation, the US foreign policy elites, have an essential disagreement between two factions I'll called optimist and pesimist.
Optimists are the people who were in charge pre-Trump. They are liberals, in the technical sense of upholding free markets and so on, and believe their own propaganda. They're the sort of people who think Fukuyama was right and which believe capitalism is more efficient and soft power matters. Who think GDP measures power, financialisation has no negative sides, and industrial production is something that can be done elsewhere and paid for. Who regard China as abnormal, and on a permanent edge of crisis, and consider it will inevitably adopt more capitalist forms because it will otherwise run into a dead end. Optimists trust the US's ability to ultimately outcompete its rivals and regard persuasion and diplomacy as key tools.
The pessimists have similar terminal values (US hegemony, private property) but aren't convinced that there's anything more efficient or automatically victorious about them. They see China as an existential threat to the model, and aren't invested in upholding rules if that means they might lose. They also see the present moment of US power as historically unique, a peak, and so they see its current allies as resource bases to be extracted from, and its military as a tool to create facts on the ground that cannot later be reverted. Under this frame, US power is fragile and temporary, so it makes sense to use it now before it's lost.
This makes sense of very strange things, like the urgency to intervene in Venezuela, the concern with Panama, Canada, Iceland, Greenland, and the otherwise inexplicable support for the war in Iran. The way I see it, this is the pessimist faction gaining the upper hand and deciding having a big and scary military is no advantage if you never do anything with it, and since the hegemonic status is ultimately temporary, this is the time to act.
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I'm not ruling out contingency, of course. There were always the seeds of its own diminution nestled in the belly of the structure of the US. The UN never had any teeth because of the structure of vetos. The EU's unanimity provision was always problematic. Nato's overdependance on a single state has a built-in fragility.
All I'm saying is... instead of trying to psychologise the players, perhaps it is more helpful to look at the outcome and ask who benefits.
The only coherent answer I can come up with is that the super-rich, with their ability to inure themselves to the agony on the ground of a radically shifting landscape, do benefit.
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@Remittancegirl I have a half-baked theory about this. But I'm just a rando, so feel free to disregard.
It makes sense of quite a lof of what is going on, which is both good (it has explanatory power) and bad (maybe it has too much explanatory power).
My theory in sum is that what we might call, for lack of a much more precise and lengthy characterisation, the US foreign policy elites, have an essential disagreement between two factions I'll called optimist and pesimist.
Optimists are the people who were in charge pre-Trump. They are liberals, in the technical sense of upholding free markets and so on, and believe their own propaganda. They're the sort of people who think Fukuyama was right and which believe capitalism is more efficient and soft power matters. Who think GDP measures power, financialisation has no negative sides, and industrial production is something that can be done elsewhere and paid for. Who regard China as abnormal, and on a permanent edge of crisis, and consider it will inevitably adopt more capitalist forms because it will otherwise run into a dead end. Optimists trust the US's ability to ultimately outcompete its rivals and regard persuasion and diplomacy as key tools.
The pessimists have similar terminal values (US hegemony, private property) but aren't convinced that there's anything more efficient or automatically victorious about them. They see China as an existential threat to the model, and aren't invested in upholding rules if that means they might lose. They also see the present moment of US power as historically unique, a peak, and so they see its current allies as resource bases to be extracted from, and its military as a tool to create facts on the ground that cannot later be reverted. Under this frame, US power is fragile and temporary, so it makes sense to use it now before it's lost.
This makes sense of very strange things, like the urgency to intervene in Venezuela, the concern with Panama, Canada, Iceland, Greenland, and the otherwise inexplicable support for the war in Iran. The way I see it, this is the pessimist faction gaining the upper hand and deciding having a big and scary military is no advantage if you never do anything with it, and since the hegemonic status is ultimately temporary, this is the time to act.
@modulux I'd never disregard this. It's not half-baked at all. It's a very coherent way of framing it.
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I'm not ruling out contingency, of course. There were always the seeds of its own diminution nestled in the belly of the structure of the US. The UN never had any teeth because of the structure of vetos. The EU's unanimity provision was always problematic. Nato's overdependance on a single state has a built-in fragility.
All I'm saying is... instead of trying to psychologise the players, perhaps it is more helpful to look at the outcome and ask who benefits.
@Remittancegirl It's also worth considering why people voted for this stuff, notwithstanding that nobody asked for these specific outcomes...
The west seems to have trouble coming to terms with its own exploitativeness. We don't want other regions and developing economies to succeed, because we expect them to screw us over. Even on the environmentalist left we worry that the economic expansion yet to come will worsen the environmental crisis. We're riding a monster we can't get off.
