I find the way that some people understand what is and isn't racism mystifying.
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@futurebird
I'm speculating, but other contributing factors could be:
- Watching a video giving you a more visceral reaction than reading or hearing words...
- On some level believing that with the USA being EXCEPTIONAL, of course people from other countries are "primitive".I agree that any way you turn it it's wildly racist.
Some of their racism is so off the charts that it fails to register with me. It's just nonsense to me and I don't even feel offended since I can't make sense of what they are doing. It kind of fails to be hurtful and just looks goofy.
Maybe that's what bothers them?
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I find the way that some people understand what is and isn't racism mystifying.
TO ME? Saying (lying!) about Black Haitian immigrants "eating cats and dogs" is wildly racist and probably worse than putting the most powerful and untouchable Black American couple in a racist video as apes?
Like both are bad. But the "eating dogs and cats" thing whew! Stinky.
And yet there are these people who were shocked by the video and unmoved by the "cats and dogs" line?
1/
@futurebird Yet here's a Black journalist basically saying "we knew he was racist, but this is next level". I agree with you, I don't understand it. Maybe it's that racism against famous and influential people is, by its nature, more overt?
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For some white people with racism it's like they have a check list. The following things are racism... and NOTHING else:
1. The n word IF said in a MEAN way.
2. Monkeys
3. Watermelon
4. Segregated Water Fountain Signs.Show them a sign that says "No Blacks Allowed" on a changing room at a store and they are like "well that's different... maybe there is a good reason? People steal"
It's is buck wild. Why even pretend that you care about racism at all?
Some of ya'll are so damn strange.
Don't you consider that there's a difference between conscious racism ("I hate n****s and wish harm on them") and unconscious one ("I'm suspicious of the behavior of these people") ?
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Don't you consider that there's a difference between conscious racism ("I hate n****s and wish harm on them") and unconscious one ("I'm suspicious of the behavior of these people") ?
Lying about people eating cats and dogs isn't just being ignorant and suspicious of people you don't know well or understand. It's deeply malicious and dehumanizing.
This isn't assuming the Black person can't possibly be the manager racism. It's not a mistake based on having a bias. It's propagandizing to eliminate humanity.
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What is the issue? It's the same thing. It's a prejudice that Black people are primitive and inhuman. Like apes or some animal that attacks your pets. It's the same racism.
Is it that they don't care if it's not powerful people?
Dazzled by the wealth and power of the Obamas and so you can recognize an insult to them but not to some regular blackfolks?
It is really odd and I do not get it.
These things are equal and we only got a retraction for ONE of them. 2/
@futurebird@sauropods.win I think another, perhaps more charitable, reason is that the video is visual so people have a more visceral emotional reaction to seeing it than reading about something he said in a speech.
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Lying about people eating cats and dogs isn't just being ignorant and suspicious of people you don't know well or understand. It's deeply malicious and dehumanizing.
This isn't assuming the Black person can't possibly be the manager racism. It's not a mistake based on having a bias. It's propagandizing to eliminate humanity.
It certainly is, but it is in a more perverse way than "I hate black people".
It's "I hate foreign black people" - you are absolutely right to be totally riled up by that as a US black woman (and to understand that you're next if they can get away with it), but still it's less obvious racism than the Obama picture.(I totally agree with you, just trying to answer you're "what's wrong with y'all" question)
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For some white people with racism it's like they have a check list. The following things are racism... and NOTHING else:
1. The n word IF said in a MEAN way.
2. Monkeys
3. Watermelon
4. Segregated Water Fountain Signs.Show them a sign that says "No Blacks Allowed" on a changing room at a store and they are like "well that's different... maybe there is a good reason? People steal"
It's is buck wild. Why even pretend that you care about racism at all?
Some of ya'll are so damn strange.
@futurebird I'm not even going to grant the leeway that some are "damn strange."
I pass because unlike my siblings I am pale skinned. Because I pass, people say wretchedly racist stuff in front of me -- and I watch people who think they aren't racist/claim they aren't racist just stand there, mute, if they don't bob their heads in agreement.
These same people may sway if put on the spot but they never question their own behavior or stop racist behavior in front of them.
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For some white people with racism it's like they have a check list. The following things are racism... and NOTHING else:
1. The n word IF said in a MEAN way.
2. Monkeys
3. Watermelon
4. Segregated Water Fountain Signs.Show them a sign that says "No Blacks Allowed" on a changing room at a store and they are like "well that's different... maybe there is a good reason? People steal"
It's is buck wild. Why even pretend that you care about racism at all?
Some of ya'll are so damn strange.
@futurebird there's an aspect of how white people react to racism which is more about class signifiers than about justice.
For people like this, racism is crass and impolite and low class. "White trash talk like that. Educated people don't" .
They tend to focus on stereotypical and specific examples of racism, like using certain words or sharing certain images.
They don't challenge the underlying assumptions that create racism.
I think that's why many white people react so badly when you point out their racism.
"you're saying I'm one of *those* people and actually I'm educated and polite! "
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@futurebird@sauropods.win I think another, perhaps more charitable, reason is that the video is visual so people have a more visceral emotional reaction to seeing it than reading about something he said in a speech.
Well on one side you have a video, on the other you have Trump himself saying "eating cats and dogs" with his own ugly lips out loud.
With the video he can say "someone posted that not me not me"
He *said* that other BS. And before the election. Everyone heard it. A bunch of people didn't care so it's odd to me that now they do care?
Because it's what? Obama? I thought Ya'll hated him.
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@futurebird there's an aspect of how white people react to racism which is more about class signifiers than about justice.
For people like this, racism is crass and impolite and low class. "White trash talk like that. Educated people don't" .
They tend to focus on stereotypical and specific examples of racism, like using certain words or sharing certain images.
They don't challenge the underlying assumptions that create racism.
I think that's why many white people react so badly when you point out their racism.
"you're saying I'm one of *those* people and actually I'm educated and polite! "
@futurebird @Zumbador Exactly. It's about observing the forms, and nothing else.
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They have NEVER apologized for that "cats and dogs" BS. Some people are still running around thinking it's true.
@futurebird Even the dumbest of us* know the cats and dogs thing is BS. That's nonsense you believe when you're a third grader and haven't figured out Santa yet. We know the truth but there's a bunch of us that enjoys being hateful assholes. It distracts us from our own mediocrity and how the people actually rigging the system against us look just like us but richer.
I would not be a bit surprised if Larry Ellison, Peter Thiel, etc actually ate cats and dogs because they knew they could get away with it as an unhinged power flex. Conversely RFKjr would be dumpster diving out behind the pound because of literal brainworms. Not Stephen Miller though; he just unhinges his jaw and gulps a rat down whole.
White people have some serious problems.
[*] Much as I want to personally want to separate me from them, I'm a White Person and this is a White Person Problem that we need to own and fix.
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For some white people with racism it's like they have a check list. The following things are racism... and NOTHING else:
1. The n word IF said in a MEAN way.
2. Monkeys
3. Watermelon
4. Segregated Water Fountain Signs.Show them a sign that says "No Blacks Allowed" on a changing room at a store and they are like "well that's different... maybe there is a good reason? People steal"
It's is buck wild. Why even pretend that you care about racism at all?
Some of ya'll are so damn strange.
@futurebird
Acknowledging that racism is the toxic waste dump their whole country's history and many of their unexamined norms was built on requires more work from them than not saying the n word. -
For some white people with racism it's like they have a check list. The following things are racism... and NOTHING else:
1. The n word IF said in a MEAN way.
2. Monkeys
3. Watermelon
4. Segregated Water Fountain Signs.Show them a sign that says "No Blacks Allowed" on a changing room at a store and they are like "well that's different... maybe there is a good reason? People steal"
It's is buck wild. Why even pretend that you care about racism at all?
Some of ya'll are so damn strange.
@futurebird media portrayals probably haven’t helped. It’s so easy to form really skewed perspectives on entire groups of people and to be a little conspiratorial the folks who own the big media conglomerates benefit from that
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Some of their racism is so off the charts that it fails to register with me. It's just nonsense to me and I don't even feel offended since I can't make sense of what they are doing. It kind of fails to be hurtful and just looks goofy.
Maybe that's what bothers them?
@futurebird I have no clue.
The description reminds me of my impression that... consensus reality doesn't exist? Like, there are so many people who do not want to look at the real world and real people and understand things; they have their ideas of reality and everything that contradicts them must be fake.
It's very disturbing. -
It certainly is, but it is in a more perverse way than "I hate black people".
It's "I hate foreign black people" - you are absolutely right to be totally riled up by that as a US black woman (and to understand that you're next if they can get away with it), but still it's less obvious racism than the Obama picture.(I totally agree with you, just trying to answer you're "what's wrong with y'all" question)
@lienrag @futurebird It may be more perverse, but the “I don’t like super-obvious racism but tolerate the rest” crowd is more insidious. They are, I think, more numerous and mostly surrounded by other white people who won’t challenge their biases. So they don’t vote for “racism” but they vote for “tough on crime” and won’t believe there’s no difference.
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Well on one side you have a video, on the other you have Trump himself saying "eating cats and dogs" with his own ugly lips out loud.
With the video he can say "someone posted that not me not me"
He *said* that other BS. And before the election. Everyone heard it. A bunch of people didn't care so it's odd to me that now they do care?
Because it's what? Obama? I thought Ya'll hated him.
@futurebird@sauropods.win I'm not saying it's right or that it's less/not racist, I'm just saying I think it's a better explanation for why some people can see it in one but not the other.
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I find the way that some people understand what is and isn't racism mystifying.
TO ME? Saying (lying!) about Black Haitian immigrants "eating cats and dogs" is wildly racist and probably worse than putting the most powerful and untouchable Black American couple in a racist video as apes?
Like both are bad. But the "eating dogs and cats" thing whew! Stinky.
And yet there are these people who were shocked by the video and unmoved by the "cats and dogs" line?
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Is it that (white) people cannot (don't want to) think about racism for themselves.
They have _already_ been told that comparing people to apes is racist, and so can recognise the pattern.
But talking about "eating cats and dogs" is a novel form of racism, and does not get pattern matched
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I do not worry about the Obamas. The Obamas are fine. It's hard for me to feel sad or bad about anything that's said about them. A Haitian working two jobs and living in Ohio having to try to prove that they don't eat cats is MUCH more upsetting to me.
I mean it's all ignorance and very embarrassing.
@futurebird this is exactly what I feel. They threatened the safety of people who dont have unlimited means to shield themselves from harm. That is what made it scary on top of the racism.
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For some white people with racism it's like they have a check list. The following things are racism... and NOTHING else:
1. The n word IF said in a MEAN way.
2. Monkeys
3. Watermelon
4. Segregated Water Fountain Signs.Show them a sign that says "No Blacks Allowed" on a changing room at a store and they are like "well that's different... maybe there is a good reason? People steal"
It's is buck wild. Why even pretend that you care about racism at all?
Some of ya'll are so damn strange.
@futurebird And that's without mentioning *everything he's done in office*.
Literally one of the first things he did after he got sworn in was mandate the end of anti-discrimination (DEI) programs in the US federal government.
He's spent the past year cutting the funding of any organisation that has anti-discrimination programs.
He's spent the past year threatening any corporation that has anti-discrimination programs.
Within days of being elected, museum exhibits recognising black scientists and veterans were being taken down.
He's cancelled the visas and deported students who have spoken out against his government's policies.
He's pushing to end birthright citizenship for non-white people.
And that's without mentioning the small matter of his governments agents *SNATCHING PEOPLE OFF THE STREET*, including US citizens and people with valid visas, solely on the basis of their ethnicity.
Racism isn't just an individual moral failure. It's a system of discrimination against people on the grounds of race or ethnicity.
The bad words are a symptom of that system.
And no recent American president has done more to actively strengthen that system of oppression than Donald J Trump.
And his whole politics is built on strengthening systems of oppression. Not only racism, but transphobia, and misogyny, and oligarchic capitalism too.
So.
After 12 months of ICE raids, and deportations, and detentions, some white Americans are only *just now* realising that Trump supports systematic discrimination against people on the basis of their race or ethnicity?!
Just now?!
Seriously?! -
@futurebird this is exactly what I feel. They threatened the safety of people who dont have unlimited means to shield themselves from harm. That is what made it scary on top of the racism.
I think about the little Haitian American school kids and what it has been like for them walking to school or in the lunch room.
The most powerful man in the world is talking pure trash about people like you.
