Blocking someone should remove their replies from your posts, this is the type of safety features we need in the Fediverse!
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@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup I think the conflict here is that people are very literally looking at server owners as being the only ones that should have agency here, and in reality even though I'm on a hosted server, I still think I should have some agency over my own threads. I don't have to ask my server host to remove comments from my blog, for example.
I don't think this would require making a blocklist public except under specific implementations.
@foxyoreos @Schafstelze @dansup the only way to federate it to other servers would be via publicly posting the ban, even if your full list isn't visible any server you've federated to would effectively have it, so it would be easy to scrape. I fully disagree, you don't own the fediverse, you don't own the thread you only started it, you can split and block further replies but you cannot kill a conversation down the chain from the one you started, it doesn't even need to necessarily involve you.
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@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup keep in mind, we do this already.
Quote posts. Quote posts already allow detatching. It's not perfect but works pretty well. It also allows locking quotes.
We could have the exact same system but for detaching replies from threads.
@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup and that system works well enough even though it doesn't force every server to participate and can't guarantee perfect functionality.
What's neat about quote posts is I don't even need to block in order to detatch.
Which lines up a lot better with how I use reply deletion on every other site, most of the time it's not for bannable offenses.
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@kelson @Schafstelze @dansup there's a world of difference between an admin deleting spam and someone selectively blocking post replies on other people's feeds on different servers via federation. If you own your server do what you want with it, it's your data, your feed. But it should not be put in the protocol to have a block federate to other servers and remove posts, we don't need a twitter 2.0 where large accounts can control what is or isn't seen.
@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup So it's not my data if someone else is the admin? All those people on WordPress.com or Blogspot or wherever who don't want spam on their posts are just out of luck because someone else runs the server?
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@foxyoreos @Schafstelze @dansup the only way to federate it to other servers would be via publicly posting the ban, even if your full list isn't visible any server you've federated to would effectively have it, so it would be easy to scrape. I fully disagree, you don't own the fediverse, you don't own the thread you only started it, you can split and block further replies but you cannot kill a conversation down the chain from the one you started, it doesn't even need to necessarily involve you.
@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup how do quote detatchments work then?
They have all of the same constraints as the system I'm proposing, and they work on the fediverse today, and have not ruined discussions on Mastodon.
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@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup how do quote detatchments work then?
They have all of the same constraints as the system I'm proposing, and they work on the fediverse today, and have not ruined discussions on Mastodon.
@foxyoreos @Schafstelze @dansup quote detachments are a VERY different mechanism, they're not related to a ban and you're not deleting or blocking the quote the other user posted, so no federation of a block would need to happen, you're essentially just denying that account to keep loading your post when requested from permanant link. (and note unlinking doesn't work on the servers that use the unofficial quote post feature, they just ignore it)
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@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup So it's not my data if someone else is the admin? All those people on WordPress.com or Blogspot or wherever who don't want spam on their posts are just out of luck because someone else runs the server?
@kelson @Schafstelze @dansup well, yes, exactly, it's not your data if it's not on your server, especially if it's posts from someone other than you that just happen to be in the reply chain.
If you want to fully own your data and have people on your server not see the replies of people you block you can do that locally on your server. (that will not however block the posts on OTHER servers people follow you from, as you do not own those.)
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@kelson
> harassment, scams, or other abusive replies
Those should be removed by server moderators. If the origin server doesn't take it down, other servers can decide to defederate it. If your own server neither defederates not deletes the reported replies, you should look for another server imho.
@rimu @dansup@tnhd @rimu @dansup So the average user is just stuck dealing with the abuse if it's coming, from, say, mastodon.social or some other instance that's too big for their admin to be willing to defederate from? Or else they have to just burn another account, abandon their posting history and go somewhere else and hope it doesn't happen again?
This is one of the attitudes that drives people out of the Fediverse and back toward centralized services.
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@dansup Agreed: this definitely falls under the category of "don't break users' expectations."
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@foxyoreos @Schafstelze @dansup quote detachments are a VERY different mechanism, they're not related to a ban and you're not deleting or blocking the quote the other user posted, so no federation of a block would need to happen, you're essentially just denying that account to keep loading your post when requested from permanant link. (and note unlinking doesn't work on the servers that use the unofficial quote post feature, they just ignore it)
@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup I would be happy with the same mechanism as quote posts. I don't need it to be managed via blocks, and I don't need the post full on deleted from the other server. I also don't need perfect enforcement.
If you click on a reply, it loads a hard link to the post it's replying to, no?
And if you run FetchAllReplies, that asks my server for a list of replies, no?
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Blocking someone should remove their replies from your posts, this is the type of safety features we need in the Fediverse!
Since a whole bunch of people replying to this post apparently didn't
1) read it, or
2) understand it, let's parse:
"Blocking someone should remove their replies from your posts"
So
"Blocking someone who replies to your post"
"should remove their replies from your post -- the specific post in question"
and further more they will not ever see any of your posts in the future, and thus not be able to reply to them or any of your past posts
Backgrounder for a couple people:
You may demand your 'right to free speech' (however you phrase it -- 'censorship' if you will), but I demand an equal and reciprocal right to never see a single word you post ever again
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@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup So it's not my data if someone else is the admin? All those people on WordPress.com or Blogspot or wherever who don't want spam on their posts are just out of luck because someone else runs the server?
@kelson @Schafstelze @dansup well, you edited while i was replying, i'm not going to bother updating my other post though, but you're comparing apples to a nissan sentra. If you want a curated feed YOU CAN DO THAT NOW, people just have to view from your feed, you can't control theirs. That's what you're looking at with an activitypub linked wordpress site, you're looking at the owners curated feed
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@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup I would be happy with the same mechanism as quote posts. I don't need it to be managed via blocks, and I don't need the post full on deleted from the other server. I also don't need perfect enforcement.
If you click on a reply, it loads a hard link to the post it's replying to, no?
And if you run FetchAllReplies, that asks my server for a list of replies, no?
@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup heck, it's an *improvement* if it's not managed specifically through blocklists, 90% of the moderation I do on my art galleries does not result in a block.
I am fine with it being on a post by post basis and using the same proactive consent model as a quote post, even though that's not fully 100% reliable everywhere. It would still help a ton.
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@tnhd @rimu @dansup So the average user is just stuck dealing with the abuse if it's coming, from, say, mastodon.social or some other instance that's too big for their admin to be willing to defederate from? Or else they have to just burn another account, abandon their posting history and go somewhere else and hope it doesn't happen again?
This is one of the attitudes that drives people out of the Fediverse and back toward centralized services.
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Blocking someone should remove their replies from your posts, this is the type of safety features we need in the Fediverse!
@dansup Should be optional?
I blocked so many people on Twitter and Facebook, but their older quote are valid and merely giving context.
Blocking people sometimes means "there's no wrong with them, I simply not interested in their post and don't want them to see me anymore."
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@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup heck, it's an *improvement* if it's not managed specifically through blocklists, 90% of the moderation I do on my art galleries does not result in a block.
I am fine with it being on a post by post basis and using the same proactive consent model as a quote post, even though that's not fully 100% reliable everywhere. It would still help a ton.
@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup the way I see it, I'm not asking for a single feature that is not already actively deployed on the fediverse, I just want to be able to use those features on the hard link between replies and their parent threads and between parent threads and their replies.
The same way I already can with quote links.
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- That's theory, not practice.
- Mastodon.social was simply an example.
- There have actually been instances that talked about (and possibly followed through on) blocking mastodon.social due to the number of bad actors who managed to slip through the cracks in moderation actions.
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@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup I would be happy with the same mechanism as quote posts. I don't need it to be managed via blocks, and I don't need the post full on deleted from the other server. I also don't need perfect enforcement.
If you click on a reply, it loads a hard link to the post it's replying to, no?
And if you run FetchAllReplies, that asks my server for a list of replies, no?
@foxyoreos @Schafstelze @dansup through the context of the server you're replying FROM though, not the original server the first post came from. Once the messages federate the chain exists on other servers, not just your own, people can still see replies other than yours even if they were to block your entire server.
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@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup the way I see it, I'm not asking for a single feature that is not already actively deployed on the fediverse, I just want to be able to use those features on the hard link between replies and their parent threads and between parent threads and their replies.
The same way I already can with quote links.
@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup heck, I would even welcome just a setting that allows people/critters following me to opt in to only seeing replies I approve.
I use reply moderation as a community safety tool under fetish artwork to make sure critters following me have proper content warnings for extreme kinks.
Mastodon has no mechanism to help with this.
We are so far behind the curve on moderation. There are things we could do to get at least part of the way towards a working system.
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@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup heck, I would even welcome just a setting that allows people/critters following me to opt in to only seeing replies I approve.
I use reply moderation as a community safety tool under fetish artwork to make sure critters following me have proper content warnings for extreme kinks.
Mastodon has no mechanism to help with this.
We are so far behind the curve on moderation. There are things we could do to get at least part of the way towards a working system.
@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup like we're taking about this under a thread about pixelfed, an art gallery platform.
It is not optional for NSFW artists to be able to curate replies under fetish art, a gallery site that doesn't have that is not a serious gallery site.
I can't think of a single example of a good gallery site that doesn't let me remove comments that go outside of my content warnings.
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@foxyoreos @Schafstelze @dansup through the context of the server you're replying FROM though, not the original server the first post came from. Once the messages federate the chain exists on other servers, not just your own, people can still see replies other than yours even if they were to block your entire server.
@raptor85 @Schafstelze @dansup so how do quote posts get around that, because those links also get federated?
Like, I am genuinely not understanding what you mean by this.
Also, quote *permissions* federate. You can see my reply on a server that has federated from another server.. and on average, non-participating platforms aside, you will need to get my permission to quote, and I can revoke that permission and turn off quote posts, and it will federate properly.
