"You can feed 4 people on $300 a month.
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@quixoticgeek @Printdevil @gwynnion @melindrea @artemis I remember people giving them shit for saying if you have no can opener you can use a knife. Because "you could injure yourself!" and "you can gert a can opner for a pound!"
No, YOU can. IF you live somewhere that sells one (and it actually works and doesn't disintegrate) and IF you have time to find it and IF you can spare a pound, when the entire fucking point of the book was that not everyone can
I had opened several cans with a knife. Yes you could get hurt if you did it wrong but guess fucking what poverty means about how many options you have, and how many risks you're forced to take
Condescending, smug arseholes attacking someone actually trying to help, instead of just clout farm
@sinvega @Printdevil @gwynnion @melindrea @artemis
Am I right in thinking that resulted in lots of people donating tin openers to food banks ?
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@quixoticgeek @Printdevil @gwynnion @melindrea @artemis I remember people giving them shit for saying if you have no can opener you can use a knife. Because "you could injure yourself!" and "you can gert a can opner for a pound!"
No, YOU can. IF you live somewhere that sells one (and it actually works and doesn't disintegrate) and IF you have time to find it and IF you can spare a pound, when the entire fucking point of the book was that not everyone can
I had opened several cans with a knife. Yes you could get hurt if you did it wrong but guess fucking what poverty means about how many options you have, and how many risks you're forced to take
Condescending, smug arseholes attacking someone actually trying to help, instead of just clout farm
@sinvega I thought part of the issue was that they were also offering tips on how to make things like biscuit cutters with that can cut open with a knife, when a better solution might have been drop biscuits or cookies.
But in general it was clear that Monroe got a lot more heat because they were also antipoverty advocates. And not a man.
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Suppose you *could* through constant labor, strenuous planning, & deprivation manage to feed yourself & your family on a tiny budget, that would still be extreme poverty.
I hate that people who aren't in poverty try to explain to those who are "no, really, you can survive. You just need to find a way to suffer a little more."
The problem is not a lack of ingenuity & creativity. The problem is poverty. No one should have to struggle every moment of every day just to live.
@artemis I live on a relatively frugal diet--legumes and produce--and I know where to get inexpensive produce (everyone in Boston knows about Haymarket). But I *enjoy* the shopping and cooking and reading cookbooks, and I have the time. I would never tell someone who was food insecure to follow my lead because I know what it is to be shamed.
But I would happily share food I cooked with someone else in need. And if that gave them a little space in their budget and time, I'd be thrilled.
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Suppose you *could* through constant labor, strenuous planning, & deprivation manage to feed yourself & your family on a tiny budget, that would still be extreme poverty.
I hate that people who aren't in poverty try to explain to those who are "no, really, you can survive. You just need to find a way to suffer a little more."
The problem is not a lack of ingenuity & creativity. The problem is poverty. No one should have to struggle every moment of every day just to live.
@artemis It's similar to the argument that one person overcame poverty and huge odds to become successful so everyone should be able to do the same.
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"You can feed 4 people on $300 a month. In this video, I will show you how to make a thin rice gruel..."
(The first sentence is really from a real person. The second is what I assume came next)
@artemis I bet someone could if they have a lot of available gardening/farming land, plenty of spoons and free time for labor, *and* live somewhere they can get seeds and gardening/hunting supplies for free or cheap. Sucks that not all of us have *any* of those privileges, let alone all (personally I do have the last one, but it doesn't do much for me without land or time/spoons), but I bet whoever you're quoting either does or simply isn't getting enough nutrition
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@TheTenuousOrder @artemis a real conversation someone had with my wife recently went like:
Person: How can you afford to feed a family of four these days?
Wife: We eat a lot of cheap one pot meals like beans and rice and pasta
Person: Oh that's not good for you, those really pack on the weight
And of course, that person did not volunteer to supply us with fresh produce and whatever else they imagine we should be eating
@AldinTheMage @TheTenuousOrder @artemis eating the food you can afford? I don't see how that's economically viable
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"You can feed 4 people on $300 a month. In this video, I will show you how to make a thin rice gruel..."
(The first sentence is really from a real person. The second is what I assume came next)
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@artemis one of my absolute pet peeves in "budget friendly cooking" is that there are *very* few I've seen that aren't coming from a perspective of privilege.
They go "oh, this meal only costs $5 if we count that you use a tablespoon of milk" ... but you can't buy a tablespoon of milk. You need to buy a whole carton.
They often assume that you have a bunch of things at home already, some decently reasonable (hopefully all have basic salt and pepper), but some that ... aren't (several different types of oil, including olive oil; onions, potatoes, carrots ...)
They go "oh, but you save so much money if you buy dried beans and then cook them yourself!" ... but don't think about the fact that boiling them for a long time takes electricity, and you can't just leave them on the stove while you go out and work to actually make a living.
And that is the final point: saving money by shopping at half a dozen different places (which takes time) and making things from scratch (which also takes time), completely ignoring that a lot of people are poor *despite working far more than full time*. So they don't have the time to do this.
@melindrea @artemis I also can't usually shop at multiple places (or I'll shop one place and then somewhere else next time I urgently need food) because gas is fucking expensive, and public transit takes forever and is also expensive for anyone who doesn't want to risk not being allowed on it again. It's only worth it for someone who can do $5 and several hours for transportation (in a city with a "good" bus system) and buy enough to actually save more money than $5+hours they could be working
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@gwynnion @Kalshann @artemis The best I've ever felt was when I was doing a low carb/high fat diet ... but at this point, my spouse and I can't do it, because we don't have the energy it takes. Every single meal and snack needed to be made almost from scratch. You could count on not being able to get anything at restaurant or whatnots that fit that, etc, and don't even think about frozen foods >.<
@melindrea @gwynnion @Kalshann @artemis the best I've ever felt was doing a gluten free, plant based, primarily whole foods diet. Without financial aid *and* the SNAP of someone counted as making $0, that now seems utterly laughable. I have family members with celiac who've even given up on the gluten free part; the only reason I haven't tried that is that I can't afford risking 2 weeks off work, nor a wheelchair-accessible apartment
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"You can feed 4 people on $300 a month. In this video, I will show you how to make a thin rice gruel..."
(The first sentence is really from a real person. The second is what I assume came next)
@artemis It would really depend on location, which would affect prices, and how much variety you wanted. Also, plant-based meals are cheaper than meat. Lentils, beans, are protein and fibre. Chilis, pastas, Indian food…
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"You can feed 4 people on $300 a month. In this video, I will show you how to make a thin rice gruel..."
(The first sentence is really from a real person. The second is what I assume came next)
I... don't think I could afford to feed even 1 person on 300$ a month... without it being nothing but ramen based...
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"You can feed 4 people on $300 a month. In this video, I will show you how to make a thin rice gruel..."
(The first sentence is really from a real person. The second is what I assume came next)
@artemis Weeks when we can escape the grocery store for less than $200 have gotten mighty rare. We still eat takeout once a week just to retain sanity. Eating gluten free with no onion nor garlic makes food even more challenging.
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That little boy and his shaming attitude about poverty fucking enraged me. I studied home economics. This kid can fuck all the way off back to his green smoothies and yoga class.
Farming While Beige did a short about this, called iirc Stop telling poor people to be better at being poor, and he explained all of the time, prep work and storage capacity you would have to have to come even close to this milquetoast shitposter’s numbers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXTF61r-RT4
Grrrrrr! Infuriating.
@MissConstrue @artemis I came here to make sure someone posted Chris's video about that exact video.
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@artemis one of my absolute pet peeves in "budget friendly cooking" is that there are *very* few I've seen that aren't coming from a perspective of privilege.
They go "oh, this meal only costs $5 if we count that you use a tablespoon of milk" ... but you can't buy a tablespoon of milk. You need to buy a whole carton.
They often assume that you have a bunch of things at home already, some decently reasonable (hopefully all have basic salt and pepper), but some that ... aren't (several different types of oil, including olive oil; onions, potatoes, carrots ...)
They go "oh, but you save so much money if you buy dried beans and then cook them yourself!" ... but don't think about the fact that boiling them for a long time takes electricity, and you can't just leave them on the stove while you go out and work to actually make a living.
And that is the final point: saving money by shopping at half a dozen different places (which takes time) and making things from scratch (which also takes time), completely ignoring that a lot of people are poor *despite working far more than full time*. So they don't have the time to do this.
@melindrea @artemis Yup, it's Vimes Boots Theory (which I adore is an actual economic theory, with the gracious consent of the Pratchett estate) as applied to food, obviously it saves money to buy bulk up front and cook from scratch but being poor often means not having resources like time and money to make the up-front investments that will save costs in the long run. This also applies to rent, with people who can't pay large security deposits paying higher rent instead, and to a million other areas of life. Basically it's fucking expensive to be poor, in ways that people who haven't been poor have the freedom to ignore.
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"You can feed 4 people on $300 a month. In this video, I will show you how to make a thin rice gruel..."
(The first sentence is really from a real person. The second is what I assume came next)
@artemis
I have been poor all my life. People who are even in middle class don't get why we don't just skimp more on food (which is where all of our money goes after rent, utilities, and bills) to get shoes, clothes, and even travel to places to enjoy Summer.It fucking sucks to eat worse food, less food, and have no reprieve for months to afford a single day of "fun", that will also result in health crash.
They don't get it, with their closets full of unused clothes with tags still on them. -
@artemis
I have been poor all my life. People who are even in middle class don't get why we don't just skimp more on food (which is where all of our money goes after rent, utilities, and bills) to get shoes, clothes, and even travel to places to enjoy Summer.It fucking sucks to eat worse food, less food, and have no reprieve for months to afford a single day of "fun", that will also result in health crash.
They don't get it, with their closets full of unused clothes with tags still on them.@artemis
Also the vegetarian/vegan movement thing - I am all for people eating less animals, and all that, if they CAN do it - but when you are poor, it is really hard to experiment with new foods. If it tastes ass, you either eat it and hate every bite, starve, or need to cook something edible. Which in all cases was waste of money you don't have.Compound to that any ailments that make cooking hard, or ingredients not suitable for your gut and you are about to find out after fucking around.
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@artemis
Also the vegetarian/vegan movement thing - I am all for people eating less animals, and all that, if they CAN do it - but when you are poor, it is really hard to experiment with new foods. If it tastes ass, you either eat it and hate every bite, starve, or need to cook something edible. Which in all cases was waste of money you don't have.Compound to that any ailments that make cooking hard, or ingredients not suitable for your gut and you are about to find out after fucking around.
@artemis
I would LOVE to make more vegetarian foods but whenever I do, it rarely tastes good. And I can't afford some of those fine ingredients like that special yeast thing that apparently makes stuff taste better but costs half a week's budget here.And we would really need shoes for my partner, so we are going back to eating noodle packs to afford them... Which, are not healthy, but sure are cheap and edible for...not long. It gets gross to eat them for long.
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@artemis Oscar Wilde, a fuckin rich man, got it:
"Sometimes the poor are praised for being thrifty. But to recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less. For a town or country labourer to practise thrift would be absolutely immoral. Man should not be ready to show that he can live like a badly-fed animal."
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@artemis Oscar Wilde, a fuckin rich man, got it:
"Sometimes the poor are praised for being thrifty. But to recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less. For a town or country labourer to practise thrift would be absolutely immoral. Man should not be ready to show that he can live like a badly-fed animal."
@artemis (couldn't resist forever. A sentence or two later he adds)
"No: a poor man who is ungrateful, unthrifty, discontented, and rebellious, is probably a real personality, and has much in him. He is at any rate a healthy protest. As for the virtuous poor, one can pity them, of course, but one cannot possibly admire them. They have made private terms with the enemy, and sold their birthright for very bad pottage. They must also be extraordinarily stupid."
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We are just going to hear more & more & more about how you can theoretically survive on next to nothing, all delivered with the attitude of "you selfish, lazy person. Just eat a tiny bowl of unflavored rice & be grateful."
@artemis "Write us what you need and we'll explain to you how to do without it" -Coluche
