Is there a good article or thread countering this narrative that Signal (and communication of that scale) is not possible without its relience on AWS?
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@liaizon In short: her entire point is based on the fact that they want to be one centralized provider servicing people everywhere on the globe. Federation with many local servers would obviously scale just as well for the vast majority of their users.
@raucao I want to see a reasoned technical critique of everyone of the points that she makes. And a step-by-step plan of how to counteract those points using a federated model and how that federated model would achieve the goals that she lays out.
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@raucao I want to see a reasoned technical critique of everyone of the points that she makes. And a step-by-step plan of how to counteract those points using a federated model and how that federated model would achieve the goals that she lays out.
@liaizon Great, but I think it's really just one point, and that is that you only need global service providers if you want to be a centralized entity providing global services, too.
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@liaizon Great, but I think it's really just one point, and that is that you only need global service providers if you want to be a centralized entity providing global services, too.
@liaizon She picks audio/video as the main argument, because for pure messaging, a second of round trip to get to the other side of the globe and back (while being on mobile networks) is pretty much irrelevant.
So if someone were to pick this apart, this is where they should present alternatives IMO.
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@liaizon She picks audio/video as the main argument, because for pure messaging, a second of round trip to get to the other side of the globe and back (while being on mobile networks) is pretty much irrelevant.
So if someone were to pick this apart, this is where they should present alternatives IMO.
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@raucao @hyc @liaizon I think one point you neglect is that signal has been conceived after people already tried to kill proprietary messaging. That's the whole xmpp story. Moxxie and al. knew about xmpp and saw it has a the total failure it is. They didn't want to reproduce that. The hostility toward decentralized things does not come from nowhere, it's based on experience
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@raucao @hyc @liaizon I think one point you neglect is that signal has been conceived after people already tried to kill proprietary messaging. That's the whole xmpp story. Moxxie and al. knew about xmpp and saw it has a the total failure it is. They didn't want to reproduce that. The hostility toward decentralized things does not come from nowhere, it's based on experience
@lutindiscret @hyc @liaizon How am I "neglecting" that? I literally shared that perspective in the post you're replying to.
It's funny you call XMPP a total failure, because I rely on it for all of my work communication and the majority of my personal comms, too. Open protocols can only be a subjective failure to you, when you're not using them. And you never know who's successfully using them, because there are no centralized statistics for that.
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@lutindiscret @hyc @liaizon How am I "neglecting" that? I literally shared that perspective in the post you're replying to.
It's funny you call XMPP a total failure, because I rely on it for all of my work communication and the majority of my personal comms, too. Open protocols can only be a subjective failure to you, when you're not using them. And you never know who's successfully using them, because there are no centralized statistics for that.
@raucao @hyc @liaizon I'm happy you are successfuly using xmpp.
I'm talking about the % of the global population.
If I setup my self hosted xmpp server and create an account. How many people can I contact on that network? You are right we don't have stat but let's admit it's order of magnitude less than WhatsApp, signal or telegram. We can regret it, we can't deny it.
Moxxie always said he would be happy to be proven wrong by the success of a decentralized app. Maybe he is right
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@raucao @hyc @liaizon I'm happy you are successfuly using xmpp.
I'm talking about the % of the global population.
If I setup my self hosted xmpp server and create an account. How many people can I contact on that network? You are right we don't have stat but let's admit it's order of magnitude less than WhatsApp, signal or telegram. We can regret it, we can't deny it.
Moxxie always said he would be happy to be proven wrong by the success of a decentralized app. Maybe he is right
@lutindiscret @hyc @liaizon Again, email is right there and how many people can you reach via email? The premise was that federation *inherently* doesn't work, and that's quite obviously wrong.
XMPP isn't more widely used due to a lack of investment, because every new messenger funded by VC money (which Signal also was) wants to be the only game in town, or at least compete directly with the largest ones. Hardly anyone dares to invest in real freedom of choice.
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P pelle@veganism.social shared this topic
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@lutindiscret @hyc @liaizon Again, email is right there and how many people can you reach via email? The premise was that federation *inherently* doesn't work, and that's quite obviously wrong.
XMPP isn't more widely used due to a lack of investment, because every new messenger funded by VC money (which Signal also was) wants to be the only game in town, or at least compete directly with the largest ones. Hardly anyone dares to invest in real freedom of choice.
@raucao @lutindiscret @hyc @liaizon@wake.st
#xmpp is super, but also check out #deltachat, which easy-to-use #e2ee like #signalmessenger, but #decentralized because it runs over #email (and #chatmail) servers.
