thinking about how there's a true solution to the trolley problem and union workers were the ones to point it out
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Isn't that the same thing all of the "drift the trolley across both tracks to hit everyone" are suggesting?
@agowa338 only in a world where manga physics apply
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@agowa338 only in a world where manga physics apply
On the other hand, they're bound to the tracks so close to the switching point that derailing it right there could also cause it to tip over and land on all of them...
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thinking about how there's a true solution to the trolley problem and union workers were the ones to point it out
@SnoopJ yay!
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thinking about how there's a true solution to the trolley problem and union workers were the ones to point it out
@SnoopJ but will you direct it to the left or to the right, on the chance that slip the switch failed.
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thinking about how there's a true solution to the trolley problem and union workers were the ones to point it out
@SnoopJ Or it sends it into a tumble and you manage to kill everyone...including yourself as your attempt causes a massive force feedback that slams the switch against you, cutting you in half with pressure force.
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thinking about how there's a true solution to the trolley problem and union workers were the ones to point it out
@SnoopJ Well duh.
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thinking about how there's a true solution to the trolley problem and union workers were the ones to point it out
Another solution to the trolley problem: realizing that you are NOT trapped inside a trolley problem, and in fact have a variety of solutions you can explore or leverage.
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thinking about how there's a true solution to the trolley problem and union workers were the ones to point it out
@SnoopJ I have given pretty much this solution many times, and people say I'm just "evading the question." And I'm like, "Nope. You're adding limits to the problem that don't exist."
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@SnoopJ The Metaphor Problem: You need to be able to describe abstract concepts to uneducated persons, so you use a metaphor to explain it. But then some of those people take the metaphor literally and try to figure out how to resolve it as if it were a literal situation. It's not yet been determined if this is avoidable, since doing so would require a metaphor that applies down to the most minute details possible.
The solution given here is a concrete example of the general approach (find the aspects of the system that you know more about than the bosses do; use those aspects to subvert their plans), same as the trolley is an example of a more general class of problem.
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like, one might be tempted to say "noooo it's a constructed hypothetical that only admits these two options"
but there's something really lovely about a union coming in and being like "ah, no, a different world is possible"
Yes! The union answer is a valid solution because it's generalizable!
* The system is run by people who only understand the broad outlines. Front-line workers understand it in more detail.
* The problem is framed by people with an agenda. If you look outside their framework, you can apply relevant knowledge to derail their agenda. -
like, one might be tempted to say "noooo it's a constructed hypothetical that only admits these two options"
but there's something really lovely about a union coming in and being like "ah, no, a different world is possible"
Glad y'all like the theme, muting this now that it's escaped containment and the tedious "well actually" killjoys have arrived
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thinking about how there's a true solution to the trolley problem and union workers were the ones to point it out
@SnoopJ or we could follow the example of general Ludd and take some baseball bats to the tracks. So many other options. Get creative!
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@ZenHeathen @SnoopJ right - that decision isn't a vacuum, there's infrastructure (a whole damn railway) built up before this moment.
maybe you face harsh consequences for slipping the switch, maybe you don't have a union and your risk tolerance that day with your kids means you can't - either way, if you see a trolley switch being built into someone else's /future/, do something about it before they're forced to make that choice.
get them the support to change the infrastructure around them
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thinking about how there's a true solution to the trolley problem and union workers were the ones to point it out
@SnoopJ@hachyderm.io RIGHT!!!! Exactly! It's the obvious solution with a moment's thought: Use the switch to derail the trolley.
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thinking about how there's a true solution to the trolley problem and union workers were the ones to point it out
@SnoopJ go unions
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@SnoopJ@hachyderm.io RIGHT!!!! Exactly! It's the obvious solution with a moment's thought: Use the switch to derail the trolley.
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thinking about how there's a true solution to the trolley problem and union workers were the ones to point it out
@SnoopJ But flip it in the direction of the 1 person because if it fails to stop that's still the right answer.
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@dpiponi yes! simply reject the premise of the test
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I love this. Lateral thinking, in this case by very practically minded people who understand the real world mechanics, allows for the rejection of a problem set up by someone who has some hidden agenda.
If presented with two bad choices, pick the third.
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thinking about how there's a true solution to the trolley problem and union workers were the ones to point it out
@SnoopJ i've long said the answer to the trolley problem is to find the guy who keeps tying people to the tracks and shoot him dead
i like this too though
