thinking about how there's a true solution to the trolley problem and union workers were the ones to point it out
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@SnoopJ The Metaphor Problem: You need to be able to describe abstract concepts to uneducated persons, so you use a metaphor to explain it. But then some of those people take the metaphor literally and try to figure out how to resolve it as if it were a literal situation. It's not yet been determined if this is avoidable, since doing so would require a metaphor that applies down to the most minute details possible.
The solution given here is a concrete example of the general approach (find the aspects of the system that you know more about than the bosses do; use those aspects to subvert their plans), same as the trolley is an example of a more general class of problem.
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like, one might be tempted to say "noooo it's a constructed hypothetical that only admits these two options"
but there's something really lovely about a union coming in and being like "ah, no, a different world is possible"
Yes! The union answer is a valid solution because it's generalizable!
* The system is run by people who only understand the broad outlines. Front-line workers understand it in more detail.
* The problem is framed by people with an agenda. If you look outside their framework, you can apply relevant knowledge to derail their agenda. -
like, one might be tempted to say "noooo it's a constructed hypothetical that only admits these two options"
but there's something really lovely about a union coming in and being like "ah, no, a different world is possible"
Glad y'all like the theme, muting this now that it's escaped containment and the tedious "well actually" killjoys have arrived
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thinking about how there's a true solution to the trolley problem and union workers were the ones to point it out
@SnoopJ or we could follow the example of general Ludd and take some baseball bats to the tracks. So many other options. Get creative!
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@ZenHeathen @SnoopJ right - that decision isn't a vacuum, there's infrastructure (a whole damn railway) built up before this moment.
maybe you face harsh consequences for slipping the switch, maybe you don't have a union and your risk tolerance that day with your kids means you can't - either way, if you see a trolley switch being built into someone else's /future/, do something about it before they're forced to make that choice.
get them the support to change the infrastructure around them
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thinking about how there's a true solution to the trolley problem and union workers were the ones to point it out
@SnoopJ@hachyderm.io RIGHT!!!! Exactly! It's the obvious solution with a moment's thought: Use the switch to derail the trolley.
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thinking about how there's a true solution to the trolley problem and union workers were the ones to point it out
@SnoopJ go unions
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@SnoopJ@hachyderm.io RIGHT!!!! Exactly! It's the obvious solution with a moment's thought: Use the switch to derail the trolley.
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thinking about how there's a true solution to the trolley problem and union workers were the ones to point it out
@SnoopJ But flip it in the direction of the 1 person because if it fails to stop that's still the right answer.
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@dpiponi yes! simply reject the premise of the test
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I love this. Lateral thinking, in this case by very practically minded people who understand the real world mechanics, allows for the rejection of a problem set up by someone who has some hidden agenda.
If presented with two bad choices, pick the third.
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thinking about how there's a true solution to the trolley problem and union workers were the ones to point it out
@SnoopJ i've long said the answer to the trolley problem is to find the guy who keeps tying people to the tracks and shoot him dead
i like this too though
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thinking about how there's a true solution to the trolley problem and union workers were the ones to point it out
@SnoopJ but then it does this:
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@SnoopJ how do we know this wouldn't happen, though?
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Glad y'all like the theme, muting this now that it's escaped containment and the tedious "well actually" killjoys have arrived
@SnoopJ The Kobayashi Maru solution should always be a valid choice!
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thinking about how there's a true solution to the trolley problem and union workers were the ones to point it out
@SnoopJ plot twist: trolley has turntable wheels like all modern trains and the front axis goes on one rail while the trolley is diagonally hanging to the second track. Everyone gets killed.
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@SnoopJ Or it sends it into a tumble and you manage to kill everyone...including yourself as your attempt causes a massive force feedback that slams the switch against you, cutting you in half with pressure force.
@crazyeddie @SnoopJ In which case it is no longer your problem.
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thinking about how there's a true solution to the trolley problem and union workers were the ones to point it out
@SnoopJ ... killing everyone aboard
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thinking about how there's a true solution to the trolley problem and union workers were the ones to point it out
I must echo the reference to the trolley ending up running over both tracks at the same time successfully.
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Isn't that the same thing all of the "drift the trolley across both tracks to hit everyone" are suggesting?
