Some of you are too young to remember when we found the 'black gold' in the North Sea ....
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Some of you are too young to remember when we found the 'black gold' in the North Sea ....
@Geri Gee. Which of these countries is benefiting from the North Sea oil income?
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@Geri As someone looking to immigrate there, it is really a cool system. The important things the government controls, but there is still a lot of room for fun innovative things. Norwegians are fearless because they can try new things, and if they fail, they fail. It's not the end of the world. It's just money. It's paper. People don't starve because of failure. If they will starve because of failure, then government controls it.
@praetor @Geri In a piece of science fiction I’m working on(not really a story, not quite an RPG world, maybe best described as an act of autism), the Union of Popular Commonwealths has a particular form of democratic socialism. It’s socialist but without state-owned enterprises. The People don’t own the means of production.
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@praetor @Geri In a piece of science fiction I’m working on(not really a story, not quite an RPG world, maybe best described as an act of autism), the Union of Popular Commonwealths has a particular form of democratic socialism. It’s socialist but without state-owned enterprises. The People don’t own the means of production.
@praetor @Geri Each particular firm is wholly owned and organized by its employees and they compete in a market that is mildly regulated by a democratic government(which is of, for and mostly by The People).
This is making me think that certain “natural monopolies” should be owned and operated by The People.
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@praetor @Geri Each particular firm is wholly owned and organized by its employees and they compete in a market that is mildly regulated by a democratic government(which is of, for and mostly by The People).
This is making me think that certain “natural monopolies” should be owned and operated by The People.
@su_liam @Geri if we're talking the Nordic Model, they aren't monopolies per se. They are private for-profit corporations, and the are several of them, but they are managed by the government, and they pay obligatory taxes at very high rate which goes into the social security system. They're almost like your power company. Its capitalism on a very tight leash is what it is.
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Some of you are too young to remember when we found the 'black gold' in the North Sea ....
@Geri Norway has Big Oil. (and some salmon).
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@Geri As someone looking to immigrate there, it is really a cool system. The important things the government controls, but there is still a lot of room for fun innovative things. Norwegians are fearless because they can try new things, and if they fail, they fail. It's not the end of the world. It's just money. It's paper. People don't starve because of failure. If they will starve because of failure, then government controls it.
"People don't starve because of failure . . ."
Oh, it's the same here in the U.S.—if you're rich to begin with.
Thank you for giving us an example of a good thing that exists and is real. Maga only promises things that they say are GOING to happen, if ONLY we all BELIEVE. In two weeks!!
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"People don't starve because of failure . . ."
Oh, it's the same here in the U.S.—if you're rich to begin with.
Thank you for giving us an example of a good thing that exists and is real. Maga only promises things that they say are GOING to happen, if ONLY we all BELIEVE. In two weeks!!
@_chris_real @Geri There have been some really cool Norwegian companies that have succeeded (Vivaldi, and Jolacloud are two), and some flaming cat turds too. As long as you pay back your creditors, the government is like "hey, Norwegian ingenuity can't win all the time. Better luck next time" and some try again. With the same people. It's not devestating. Progress is iterative, but progress should always be beneficial regardless. Not destructive.
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@_chris_real @Geri There have been some really cool Norwegian companies that have succeeded (Vivaldi, and Jolacloud are two), and some flaming cat turds too. As long as you pay back your creditors, the government is like "hey, Norwegian ingenuity can't win all the time. Better luck next time" and some try again. With the same people. It's not devestating. Progress is iterative, but progress should always be beneficial regardless. Not destructive.
I'm using Vivaldi now (you mean the browser, right?)
If this is a product of Norway, I'm impressed!
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@_chris_real @Geri Yup! Vivaldi is a Norwegian company.
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@_chris_real @Geri Yup! Vivaldi is a Norwegian company.
It's a good one. I feel undespairing of America's decline, there are sane adults in many other countries who can pick up our slack.
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@_chris_real @Geri Europe has a history spanning thousands and thousands of years. They've been through it all - some have learned the lessons better than others. But the US is only 250 years old. HM King Harald has jewelry older than that! This is a teenage rebellion phase for us. The US doesn't have a clearly defined culture like European countries do. We're "finding ourselves" like a teenager would.
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Some of you are too young to remember when we found the 'black gold' in the North Sea ....
The North Sea oil fields are shared between several states, so it isn't the difference between UK and Norway.
Bigger part, imho, is how a former officer of the British Iraq Petroleum Company named Farouk al-Kasim moved to Norway due to his son needing treatment for cerebral palsy.
He applied for a position at the ministry of industry at the same time as the Fields were found, and ended up drafting almost singlehandedly the Sovereign Fund, which he hoped to solve the Resource Curse.
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@_chris_real @Geri Just kinda wish we were going through a cool goth phase and not a Nazi skinhead phase though....
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The North Sea oil fields are shared between several states, so it isn't the difference between UK and Norway.
Bigger part, imho, is how a former officer of the British Iraq Petroleum Company named Farouk al-Kasim moved to Norway due to his son needing treatment for cerebral palsy.
He applied for a position at the ministry of industry at the same time as the Fields were found, and ended up drafting almost singlehandedly the Sovereign Fund, which he hoped to solve the Resource Curse.
The above, btw, should pretty much be the ur-reason for the Nordic model.
Even with only barely profitable fishing industry, Norway had created a health care sector that drew a rich executive of a major company to abandon his career, and move to a place with less than welcoming climate. This led to Norway having the know-how to avoid the Resource Curse, pretty much the only country to do so.
In other words: high Gini may create nice palaces, but it doesn't ensure healthy people.
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The above, btw, should pretty much be the ur-reason for the Nordic model.
Even with only barely profitable fishing industry, Norway had created a health care sector that drew a rich executive of a major company to abandon his career, and move to a place with less than welcoming climate. This led to Norway having the know-how to avoid the Resource Curse, pretty much the only country to do so.
In other words: high Gini may create nice palaces, but it doesn't ensure healthy people.
Also worth saying that high Gini also creates high class borders, which means the ultrarich feel more loyal to their global clique than they do to their own homeland.
(This is what the "we'll move if taxed" actually boils down to. Also the classic "how do we stop the guards from killing us at the nuclear bunker" -dilemma.)
Low Gini leads more connections between classes, which leads to higher loyalty to your society, which leads to acceptance of higher taxes.
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@_chris_real @Geri Just kinda wish we were going through a cool goth phase and not a Nazi skinhead phase though....
Not to be argumentative, but as countries go, we are the oldest DEMOCRACY since the Greeks (who were only democratic to a point).
Upon encountering a nihilist who is simply treating the U.S. as an asset he needs to liquidate to weaken to allow him to make his qetaway, future leaders need to make MASSIVE revisions to the deeply flawed U.S. constitution, or accept the fact that we are a legacy government ripe for raiding.
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Not to be argumentative, but as countries go, we are the oldest DEMOCRACY since the Greeks (who were only democratic to a point).
Upon encountering a nihilist who is simply treating the U.S. as an asset he needs to liquidate to weaken to allow him to make his qetaway, future leaders need to make MASSIVE revisions to the deeply flawed U.S. constitution, or accept the fact that we are a legacy government ripe for raiding.
@_chris_real @Geri I don't think the Constitution is flawed as much as the style of government that it is dictating is. Republicanism is a failed system of government. Parliamentary systems are far better, and have consistently shown to be less corrupt. I think the American experiment of a federal republic is a failure, not necessarily the document guiding it.
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@_chris_real @Geri I don't think the Constitution is flawed as much as the style of government that it is dictating is. Republicanism is a failed system of government. Parliamentary systems are far better, and have consistently shown to be less corrupt. I think the American experiment of a federal republic is a failure, not necessarily the document guiding it.
My view:
1) the founders were deeply against rule by political parties. Yet here we are.
2) The Electoral College is no longer a solution for anything. We will remain a democratic farce until it is abolished.
3) Gerrymandering is a direct result of clever racists gaming the Electoral College. So . . .
4) Slavery was never REALLY abolished, with that short phrase " . . . EXCEPT as a condition of involuntary servitude" in the amendment purporting to END slavery. So now our slavery is corporate.
Nothing will change until these wrongs have been righted.
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Some of you are too young to remember when we found the 'black gold' in the North Sea ....
@Geri 10 trillion pounds seemed a little over the top so I poked around and sure enough... https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/norway-does-not-have-wealth-equivalent-10-trillion-british-pounds-per-citizen-2024-11-05/
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The North Sea oil fields are shared between several states, so it isn't the difference between UK and Norway.
Bigger part, imho, is how a former officer of the British Iraq Petroleum Company named Farouk al-Kasim moved to Norway due to his son needing treatment for cerebral palsy.
He applied for a position at the ministry of industry at the same time as the Fields were found, and ended up drafting almost singlehandedly the Sovereign Fund, which he hoped to solve the Resource Curse.
@iju
Fascinating bit of history, completely unknown to me - & thank you for adding more info & tying it to the artefacts of high/low Gini. I’ve heard it said that Chinese leaders get nervous as Gini approaches 1 (max. inequality - see the Wiki entry below). Do you know anything about that? 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient
