I don’t want a new phone.
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@akareilly With #Android, you can often switch to a different ROM. However, if you don't get updates from the original vendor (via original ROM or alternative ROM which uses the vendor patches which require vendor support), you accumulate all unpatched bugs that are below the OS level. Therefore, it's a risk you're taking here although you've switched to an hopefully up to date OS.
Best bet: only buy HW with vendor security support as long as possible. 5-7 years is good. Furthermore, for #privacy and #security reasons I'd recommend using #GrapheneOS right from the start. So you need to choose models that are supported by that.
HTH
Graphene only runs on Google phones. What use is there in an alternative rom if you have to buy your phone from the fascist US oligarchs...
The best way to get rid of both, in my opinion, is a Fairphone and /e/OS which is degoogled, meaning it does not use Google spyware services and software. And all my banking apps work, even those which don't run on LineageOS WITH Google services
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@tasket @akareilly Sorry, those baseband patches that GrapheneOS or Lineage OS are offering stop as soon as vendor support stops.
You can't extend device support by switching to an alternative ROM.
@publicvoit The context in which you made your remarks imply that the user has to stay with the OS / update system supplied by the original vendor to keep receiving proper updates. That is not true. The user's phone can receive updates via the alternative OS.
Its much different to say that the hardware only receives driver updates for as long as the hw vendor publishes them.
Somewhat related topic: The FSF has started a project to reverse engineer hardware (create drivers) for Android phones.
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@akareilly check out GrapheneOS, or Lineage OS which is less secure but has wider hardware compatibility
Graphene only runs on Google phones.
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Graphene only runs on Google phones.
@HarryMutt @akareilly and next year Motorola ones.
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I don’t want a new phone. I want my perfectly good hardware to keep getting updates until it actually stops working. I want replaceable batteries that get recycled. If a company stops giving updates I want to be able to change the OS.
@akareilly I literally just switched both screen and battery on my Fairphone 4. I'm planning to use it until no longer possible.
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I don’t want a new phone. I want my perfectly good hardware to keep getting updates until it actually stops working. I want replaceable batteries that get recycled. If a company stops giving updates I want to be able to change the OS.
@akareilly Amen
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the only reason my phone that is over 10 years old doesn’t work is because of the choice to stop updates
@akareilly
If it's an Android phone, LineageOS could probably do the trick. It took my Pixel 4XL all the way up to Android 17, with a view to security updates and future Android versions -
@HarryMutt @akareilly and next year Motorola ones.
Still a US mega corporation. Boycott them. Buy independent. Buy a Fairphone or one of the other alternatives. Don't support big money.
And if the people behind Graphene were serious, they WOULD support those alternatives. That they don't do that makes me doubt their motives.
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@publicvoit The context in which you made your remarks imply that the user has to stay with the OS / update system supplied by the original vendor to keep receiving proper updates. That is not true. The user's phone can receive updates via the alternative OS.
Its much different to say that the hardware only receives driver updates for as long as the hw vendor publishes them.
Somewhat related topic: The FSF has started a project to reverse engineer hardware (create drivers) for Android phones.
@tasket I edited my message. Hope that is much clearer now. Thanks!
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I don’t want a new phone. I want my perfectly good hardware to keep getting updates until it actually stops working. I want replaceable batteries that get recycled. If a company stops giving updates I want to be able to change the OS.
@akareilly My 5 year old Fairphone 4 still gets updates via iodeOS and my new FP 6 will hopefully go for even longer. I only got it to have a backup device ready.
Fairphone fills that exact niche for me
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@akareilly Imagine your gas station selling a new type of gasoline every year, and everyone is expected to buy a new car.
@Wesemann @akareilly Don't give them ideas!
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@Mr_GHARice @kobold @sticklandtim @akareilly generally happy with my FP4, but it does have android auto issues (it won't run). And the Fairphone help desk were useless. Told me to factory reset the phone. For all the hassle that causes with logins, bank accounts and backed up data, I just didn't bother. The camera isn't great either, it's ok.
But, for all that, I still really like the idea behind the phone@ronanmcd @Mr_GHARice @sticklandtim @akareilly maybe I have less issues as I do use the de-googled Android flavor. Having looked into the data my car intended to send to Google through Android Auto was a huge no-go.
Camera could be better, but is OK. Otherwise there are one of two handling tweaks I would like seeing changed, e.g. you can mute the phone through key presses, but not unmute, but this is an Android issue unrelated to the hardware. -
Graphene only runs on Google phones. What use is there in an alternative rom if you have to buy your phone from the fascist US oligarchs...
The best way to get rid of both, in my opinion, is a Fairphone and /e/OS which is degoogled, meaning it does not use Google spyware services and software. And all my banking apps work, even those which don't run on LineageOS WITH Google services
@HarryMutt @akareilly If you want a de-googled smartphone with maximum privacy and security, there is no better option as GrapheneOS at the moment. (Even better than Apple's options.)
Fairphone is a very nice idea, yes. eOS I don't know much. However, both lack up-to-date patchlevels in terms of security (they're typically months away from them). So if you use them for valid reasons, you prioritize other things than security. HTH
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@ronanmcd @Mr_GHARice @sticklandtim @akareilly maybe I have less issues as I do use the de-googled Android flavor. Having looked into the data my car intended to send to Google through Android Auto was a huge no-go.
Camera could be better, but is OK. Otherwise there are one of two handling tweaks I would like seeing changed, e.g. you can mute the phone through key presses, but not unmute, but this is an Android issue unrelated to the hardware.@kobold @Mr_GHARice @sticklandtim @akareilly yeah, have to say, not having Android Auto is no loss. If only because Google Maps is a terrible navigation system
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Still a US mega corporation. Boycott them. Buy independent. Buy a Fairphone or one of the other alternatives. Don't support big money.
And if the people behind Graphene were serious, they WOULD support those alternatives. That they don't do that makes me doubt their motives.
@HarryMutt @akareilly Chinese, actually. Motorola phones are owned by Lenovo.
The GrapheneOS folks are clear that they will only support platforms that have Memory Tagging Extensions (MTE) going forward. as they are a security-focused distro. That allowed them to find security flaws in the Bluetooth software that could be used to take over your phone, for instance, and they contributed the fixes back to Google.
Even Google's Pixel 11 line has regressed and disabled MTE, so they won't be supported, but Motorola's next flagships will have a high-end Qualcomm chipset that does. The Fairphone and most other Android phones just don't care about security. Even Apple only recently introduced MTE to the iPhone starting with the iPhone 17.
That's why I also mentioned LineageOS, that has lower requirements and supports more phones, including quite a few Fairphones, going back to the Fairphone 3 of 2019:
https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/#fairphone -
@HarryMutt @akareilly If you want a de-googled smartphone with maximum privacy and security, there is no better option as GrapheneOS at the moment. (Even better than Apple's options.)
Fairphone is a very nice idea, yes. eOS I don't know much. However, both lack up-to-date patchlevels in terms of security (they're typically months away from them). So if you use them for valid reasons, you prioritize other things than security. HTH
"Even better than Apple's options"
Haha, yeah, the golden cage spyware experts who record your every word. Sorry, I can't take anybody serious who believes their lies about privacy...
And Graphene, again, they ONLY support GOOGLE phones and potentially a few from another US tech company. And they certainly do not write their own drivers. So, under the hood, the same closed source drivers that corrupt all the alleged security of every phone, even the alternative ones.
The Fairphone with /e/OS is a very good compromise between safety and usability. Above all, they keep the US megalomaniac data thieves OUT. And that IS a big gain for me.
But that was not even the original question in this thread. It was about sutainability and updates, and there, the Fairphone wins hands down. Transfer Graphene on these, and I will give it a try. If I have to shower US companies with my money first, no thanks. They are the OPPOSITE of who I want to support...
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the only reason my phone that is over 10 years old doesn’t work is because of the choice to stop updates
The only reason my old phone doesn't work, is because I threw it in the sea.
Ok I didn't throw it. It just got a little wet. It was meant to be water-resistant. It wasn't.
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the only reason my phone that is over 10 years old doesn’t work is because of the choice to stop updates
the other reason one of my even older phones, the last small Sony Xperia, on LineageOS isn’t a viable daily driver is that many of the functions needed to participate in society like QR code scanning, simply don’t work
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the other reason one of my even older phones, the last small Sony Xperia, on LineageOS isn’t a viable daily driver is that many of the functions needed to participate in society like QR code scanning, simply don’t work
I’m also one of the early adopters of Jolla phones and Sailfish after owning a Nokia maemo phone.
The system needs to change. Open source alone can’t solve this. Big companies need to be compelled to act responsibly.
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I’m also one of the early adopters of Jolla phones and Sailfish after owning a Nokia maemo phone.
The system needs to change. Open source alone can’t solve this. Big companies need to be compelled to act responsibly.
Conflict minerals need to be banned outright.
Software licensing won’t save the people harmed at each stage of the supply chain.
Software licensing doesn’t address how hazardous the human labour involved in recycling old electronics can be.
