I don’t want a new phone.
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@publicvoit The context in which you made your remarks imply that the user has to stay with the OS / update system supplied by the original vendor to keep receiving proper updates. That is not true. The user's phone can receive updates via the alternative OS.
Its much different to say that the hardware only receives driver updates for as long as the hw vendor publishes them.
Somewhat related topic: The FSF has started a project to reverse engineer hardware (create drivers) for Android phones.
@tasket I edited my message. Hope that is much clearer now. Thanks!
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I don’t want a new phone. I want my perfectly good hardware to keep getting updates until it actually stops working. I want replaceable batteries that get recycled. If a company stops giving updates I want to be able to change the OS.
@akareilly My 5 year old Fairphone 4 still gets updates via iodeOS and my new FP 6 will hopefully go for even longer. I only got it to have a backup device ready.
Fairphone fills that exact niche for me
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@akareilly Imagine your gas station selling a new type of gasoline every year, and everyone is expected to buy a new car.
@Wesemann @akareilly Don't give them ideas!
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@Mr_GHARice @kobold @sticklandtim @akareilly generally happy with my FP4, but it does have android auto issues (it won't run). And the Fairphone help desk were useless. Told me to factory reset the phone. For all the hassle that causes with logins, bank accounts and backed up data, I just didn't bother. The camera isn't great either, it's ok.
But, for all that, I still really like the idea behind the phone@ronanmcd @Mr_GHARice @sticklandtim @akareilly maybe I have less issues as I do use the de-googled Android flavor. Having looked into the data my car intended to send to Google through Android Auto was a huge no-go.
Camera could be better, but is OK. Otherwise there are one of two handling tweaks I would like seeing changed, e.g. you can mute the phone through key presses, but not unmute, but this is an Android issue unrelated to the hardware. -
Graphene only runs on Google phones. What use is there in an alternative rom if you have to buy your phone from the fascist US oligarchs...
The best way to get rid of both, in my opinion, is a Fairphone and /e/OS which is degoogled, meaning it does not use Google spyware services and software. And all my banking apps work, even those which don't run on LineageOS WITH Google services
@HarryMutt @akareilly If you want a de-googled smartphone with maximum privacy and security, there is no better option as GrapheneOS at the moment. (Even better than Apple's options.)
Fairphone is a very nice idea, yes. eOS I don't know much. However, both lack up-to-date patchlevels in terms of security (they're typically months away from them). So if you use them for valid reasons, you prioritize other things than security. HTH
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@ronanmcd @Mr_GHARice @sticklandtim @akareilly maybe I have less issues as I do use the de-googled Android flavor. Having looked into the data my car intended to send to Google through Android Auto was a huge no-go.
Camera could be better, but is OK. Otherwise there are one of two handling tweaks I would like seeing changed, e.g. you can mute the phone through key presses, but not unmute, but this is an Android issue unrelated to the hardware.@kobold @Mr_GHARice @sticklandtim @akareilly yeah, have to say, not having Android Auto is no loss. If only because Google Maps is a terrible navigation system
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Still a US mega corporation. Boycott them. Buy independent. Buy a Fairphone or one of the other alternatives. Don't support big money.
And if the people behind Graphene were serious, they WOULD support those alternatives. That they don't do that makes me doubt their motives.
@HarryMutt @akareilly Chinese, actually. Motorola phones are owned by Lenovo.
The GrapheneOS folks are clear that they will only support platforms that have Memory Tagging Extensions (MTE) going forward. as they are a security-focused distro. That allowed them to find security flaws in the Bluetooth software that could be used to take over your phone, for instance, and they contributed the fixes back to Google.
Even Google's Pixel 11 line has regressed and disabled MTE, so they won't be supported, but Motorola's next flagships will have a high-end Qualcomm chipset that does. The Fairphone and most other Android phones just don't care about security. Even Apple only recently introduced MTE to the iPhone starting with the iPhone 17.
That's why I also mentioned LineageOS, that has lower requirements and supports more phones, including quite a few Fairphones, going back to the Fairphone 3 of 2019:
https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/#fairphone -
@HarryMutt @akareilly If you want a de-googled smartphone with maximum privacy and security, there is no better option as GrapheneOS at the moment. (Even better than Apple's options.)
Fairphone is a very nice idea, yes. eOS I don't know much. However, both lack up-to-date patchlevels in terms of security (they're typically months away from them). So if you use them for valid reasons, you prioritize other things than security. HTH
"Even better than Apple's options"
Haha, yeah, the golden cage spyware experts who record your every word. Sorry, I can't take anybody serious who believes their lies about privacy...
And Graphene, again, they ONLY support GOOGLE phones and potentially a few from another US tech company. And they certainly do not write their own drivers. So, under the hood, the same closed source drivers that corrupt all the alleged security of every phone, even the alternative ones.
The Fairphone with /e/OS is a very good compromise between safety and usability. Above all, they keep the US megalomaniac data thieves OUT. And that IS a big gain for me.
But that was not even the original question in this thread. It was about sutainability and updates, and there, the Fairphone wins hands down. Transfer Graphene on these, and I will give it a try. If I have to shower US companies with my money first, no thanks. They are the OPPOSITE of who I want to support...
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the only reason my phone that is over 10 years old doesn’t work is because of the choice to stop updates
The only reason my old phone doesn't work, is because I threw it in the sea.
Ok I didn't throw it. It just got a little wet. It was meant to be water-resistant. It wasn't.
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the only reason my phone that is over 10 years old doesn’t work is because of the choice to stop updates
the other reason one of my even older phones, the last small Sony Xperia, on LineageOS isn’t a viable daily driver is that many of the functions needed to participate in society like QR code scanning, simply don’t work
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the other reason one of my even older phones, the last small Sony Xperia, on LineageOS isn’t a viable daily driver is that many of the functions needed to participate in society like QR code scanning, simply don’t work
I’m also one of the early adopters of Jolla phones and Sailfish after owning a Nokia maemo phone.
The system needs to change. Open source alone can’t solve this. Big companies need to be compelled to act responsibly.
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I’m also one of the early adopters of Jolla phones and Sailfish after owning a Nokia maemo phone.
The system needs to change. Open source alone can’t solve this. Big companies need to be compelled to act responsibly.
Conflict minerals need to be banned outright.
Software licensing won’t save the people harmed at each stage of the supply chain.
Software licensing doesn’t address how hazardous the human labour involved in recycling old electronics can be.
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Conflict minerals need to be banned outright.
Software licensing won’t save the people harmed at each stage of the supply chain.
Software licensing doesn’t address how hazardous the human labour involved in recycling old electronics can be.
Fairphone is a good idea.
They do need to make a smaller phone that people with smaller hands (like 50% of the population) can use without repetitive stress injuries.
The trend towards phones being massive fondleslabs is ableist as hell, I said what I said.
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I don’t want a new phone. I want my perfectly good hardware to keep getting updates until it actually stops working. I want replaceable batteries that get recycled. If a company stops giving updates I want to be able to change the OS.
@akareilly Likewise. There are pretty much just three reasons I actively want to replace my current phone: OS isn't getting any security updates (let alone normal updates), the camera hardware is mediocre even for its time, and there are a couple of broken or worn down parts that I just do not have the ability to replace and repair myself, & paying someone else to do it would be a good chunk to a new-er device.
If it were still getting updates - even just a quarterly security patch - I'd be fine with just paying someone to handle replacing the display (glass is pretty cracked) and battery (its aging a fair bit) and going from there. I technically have a second one with an even more fucked up screen & definitely need to be replaced battery, but the cost to fix em up just doesn't feel worth it when I can get a decent phone that'll allegedly last a good few years for not much more, with a couple of quality of life improvements I actually care about.
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Fairphone is a good idea.
They do need to make a smaller phone that people with smaller hands (like 50% of the population) can use without repetitive stress injuries.
The trend towards phones being massive fondleslabs is ableist as hell, I said what I said.
@akareilly yes! This is a hill I will die on (a hill made of phones that are too big)
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I don’t want a new phone. I want my perfectly good hardware to keep getting updates until it actually stops working. I want replaceable batteries that get recycled. If a company stops giving updates I want to be able to change the OS.
@akareilly What do you want to pay?
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Fairphone is a good idea.
They do need to make a smaller phone that people with smaller hands (like 50% of the population) can use without repetitive stress injuries.
The trend towards phones being massive fondleslabs is ableist as hell, I said what I said.
@akareilly Yes, I need a smaller phone for fuck sake..... I need a small phone with Android for just daily use.....
But obviously some companies want it also to be your entertainment system and that seems to drive up the size. — Vi
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@akareilly Yes, I need a smaller phone for fuck sake..... I need a small phone with Android for just daily use.....
But obviously some companies want it also to be your entertainment system and that seems to drive up the size. — Vi
@akareilly Also yes, team small hands..... — Vi
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Fairphone is a good idea.
They do need to make a smaller phone that people with smaller hands (like 50% of the population) can use without repetitive stress injuries.
The trend towards phones being massive fondleslabs is ableist as hell, I said what I said.
@akareilly plus it would probably be cheaper
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Fairphone is a good idea.
They do need to make a smaller phone that people with smaller hands (like 50% of the population) can use without repetitive stress injuries.
The trend towards phones being massive fondleslabs is ableist as hell, I said what I said.
@akareilly yes, I hate those huge phones and I want to keep using my small smartphone for as long as possible (probably changing the battery once in while)
