I encourage you to troll anyone Ayn-Rand-adjacent by sending them this image with the caption “Makers vs Takers” and then completely ignore every word of the long reply you receive
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I don’t know, I was in high school maybe an hour or two from where homophobes murdered Matthew Shepard and left his body by the side of the road, which hardly seems a Libertarian thing to do.
Again, I'm from that part of the world. I know the Libertarian veneer, and I also know how much it resembled MAGA beneath that veneer even in the 80s and 90s.
@inthehands I partied at the bar he was it when I lived in Laramie. And I’m also gay. And BORN there in the 80s, romped in the 90s, went to UW in the 00s, and moved to SLC….literally 90 mimutes from my hometown in the 10s. So you can shut your fucking mouth, mm’kay. I knew Coloradoans were self-righteous but fuck.
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RE: https://mstdn.social/@DemocracyMattersALot/116868444258059787
I encourage you to troll anyone Ayn-Rand-adjacent by sending them this image with the caption “Makers vs Takers” and then completely ignore every word of the long reply you receive
@inthehands
The Democrats support genocide and brought us Donald Trump, as well as the surveillance state. Both parties work for the same billionaire donors. Amazing that so many people still buy the whole "good cop bad cop" routine even now! I don't know how they manage to completely overlook the genocide in Gaza, among other things.What we need is to end the system altogether and replace it with something that answers to the needs of the people. And we the people are the only ones who are going to do THAT.
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@inthehands
The Democrats support genocide and brought us Donald Trump, as well as the surveillance state. Both parties work for the same billionaire donors. Amazing that so many people still buy the whole "good cop bad cop" routine even now! I don't know how they manage to completely overlook the genocide in Gaza, among other things.What we need is to end the system altogether and replace it with something that answers to the needs of the people. And we the people are the only ones who are going to do THAT.
While you are "ending the system", or "seizing the means of production", Black and Brown people will be working in the trenches actually making lives better. But please, do go on.
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RE: https://mstdn.social/@DemocracyMattersALot/116868444258059787
I encourage you to troll anyone Ayn-Rand-adjacent by sending them this image with the caption “Makers vs Takers” and then completely ignore every word of the long reply you receive
@inthehands oh holy fuck is there really NO POINT in engaging them. Our headmate Peter thinks he can land a few useful punches at least with well-chosen words (short and...very much not sweet) but the general impression I get from that crowd is that if you hit them in some way, they just...pump up the old #meme machine again and disgorge some words (possibly all LLM generated now) that have served them for many decades of chewing on their memories of Reagan and Thatcher and Ayn Fucking Rand
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While you are "ending the system", or "seizing the means of production", Black and Brown people will be working in the trenches actually making lives better. But please, do go on.
And while you are being "practical" and "respecting POC", tens and hundreds of thousands of brown children will continue to be murdered by the DNC, which receives bountiful funding from APAC and J Street. But I guess those kids don't really matter to you. We just need to keep voting Blue no matter who, right? What's a little genocide between friends?
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I mean, I don't know, maybe we got different cross sections of that Western Libertarian streak…but many of the tastes I got in Northern Colorado and Southern Wyoming growing up there were appalling racist, homophobic, religiously fundamentalist, and primed for Trumpism.
@inthehands Yes. Well, none of those things about Wyoming are true. And I don't appreciate the suggestion that we are like that. So.....
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@inthehands I partied at the bar he was it when I lived in Laramie. And I’m also gay. And BORN there in the 80s, romped in the 90s, went to UW in the 00s, and moved to SLC….literally 90 mimutes from my hometown in the 10s. So you can shut your fucking mouth, mm’kay. I knew Coloradoans were self-righteous but fuck.
I'm basing what I said on encountering people like this (this church was just a few miles from the house where I grew up):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaPorte_Church_of_Christ
Maybe that brand of more already-MAGA-flavored conservatism was more Colorado Springs centered, and attenuated the further you got into Wyoming? Maybe it's just about what each of us happened to encounter by chance, born roughly the same time and not too far apart but having different experiences? Who knows. I can only speak from my own experience; both of us can. In any case:
> So you can shut your fucking mouth, mm’kay. I knew Coloradoans were self-righteous but fuck.
That’s really not necessary.
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And while you are being "practical" and "respecting POC", tens and hundreds of thousands of brown children will continue to be murdered by the DNC, which receives bountiful funding from APAC and J Street. But I guess those kids don't really matter to you. We just need to keep voting Blue no matter who, right? What's a little genocide between friends?
@Quasit
A hundred thousand dead Iraqi children stare up from their graves to thank Ralph Nader for making sure Florida voters knew GWB and Al Gore were exactly the same. Not to mention the decades of climate action lost, because as we all KNOW they were exactly the same on that issue. -
I'm basing what I said on encountering people like this (this church was just a few miles from the house where I grew up):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaPorte_Church_of_Christ
Maybe that brand of more already-MAGA-flavored conservatism was more Colorado Springs centered, and attenuated the further you got into Wyoming? Maybe it's just about what each of us happened to encounter by chance, born roughly the same time and not too far apart but having different experiences? Who knows. I can only speak from my own experience; both of us can. In any case:
> So you can shut your fucking mouth, mm’kay. I knew Coloradoans were self-righteous but fuck.
That’s really not necessary.
@inthehands For one, that is a church in Colorado. Wyoming isn't religiously homogenized. The only place it is, is where I'm from which is SW Wyoming, which is predominately Mormon. The rest of the state doesn't really have a de facto religion. We also don't tolerate fascism very well. Nazi militias from Idaho keep trying to invade the part I'm from, and we consistently boot them out. I have never known anyone except LDS for being fundies
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@Quasit
A hundred thousand dead Iraqi children stare up from their graves to thank Ralph Nader for making sure Florida voters knew GWB and Al Gore were exactly the same. Not to mention the decades of climate action lost, because as we all KNOW they were exactly the same on that issue. -
RE: https://mstdn.social/@DemocracyMattersALot/116868444258059787
I encourage you to troll anyone Ayn-Rand-adjacent by sending them this image with the caption “Makers vs Takers” and then completely ignore every word of the long reply you receive
@inthehands Reddit taught me this over a decade ago. I see nothing has changed. Well things have changed. For the worse.
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@Quasit
A hundred thousand dead Iraqi children stare up from their graves to thank Ralph Nader for making sure Florida voters knew GWB and Al Gore were exactly the same. Not to mention the decades of climate action lost, because as we all KNOW they were exactly the same on that issue.@Okanogen
Wow, it takes some nerve to invoke dead Iraqi children while supporting a party that's committing genocide in Gaza and Lebanon!I'd congratulate you, but I don't congratulate shitlibs. I mute them. Bye-bye!
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RE: https://mstdn.social/@DemocracyMattersALot/116868444258059787
I encourage you to troll anyone Ayn-Rand-adjacent by sending them this image with the caption “Makers vs Takers” and then completely ignore every word of the long reply you receive
@inthehands This is a graph of "Democrats feed on the rich". Ever had an email campaign or a spam SMS that the Democratic party would like to donate to you?
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RE: https://mstdn.social/@DemocracyMattersALot/116868444258059787
I encourage you to troll anyone Ayn-Rand-adjacent by sending them this image with the caption “Makers vs Takers” and then completely ignore every word of the long reply you receive
It's always fun to tease right-wingers, of course, but the truth is that analyses like this make no sense - and note they are used by the right too, for example in the UK to show that poorer places are 'dependent' on the City of London.
The problem is that they don't tell you where income or wealth are actually generated - only where the taxes are paid. If an area has lots of corporate headquarters full of very highly paid people, or lots of rich landlords, it will collect more tax - but it might well have taken the income being taxed from plants or properties in areas that collect less tax.
The 'starvation' thing is also obviously absurd - people don't eat tax. You'd probably get a very different map if you looked at where food actually comes from.
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It's always fun to tease right-wingers, of course, but the truth is that analyses like this make no sense - and note they are used by the right too, for example in the UK to show that poorer places are 'dependent' on the City of London.
The problem is that they don't tell you where income or wealth are actually generated - only where the taxes are paid. If an area has lots of corporate headquarters full of very highly paid people, or lots of rich landlords, it will collect more tax - but it might well have taken the income being taxed from plants or properties in areas that collect less tax.
The 'starvation' thing is also obviously absurd - people don't eat tax. You'd probably get a very different map if you looked at where food actually comes from.
@GeofCox @inthehands in the American case though it's a direct call out of hypocrisy. I follow British politics a little bit, though not much, but as far as I know you don't usually have as much of a political culture of rural conservative regions decrying more urban liberal regions for "welfare state" policies and in general overspending in a way that's implied to impact the national government while claiming conservative spending policies save money.
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It's always fun to tease right-wingers, of course, but the truth is that analyses like this make no sense - and note they are used by the right too, for example in the UK to show that poorer places are 'dependent' on the City of London.
The problem is that they don't tell you where income or wealth are actually generated - only where the taxes are paid. If an area has lots of corporate headquarters full of very highly paid people, or lots of rich landlords, it will collect more tax - but it might well have taken the income being taxed from plants or properties in areas that collect less tax.
The 'starvation' thing is also obviously absurd - people don't eat tax. You'd probably get a very different map if you looked at where food actually comes from.
thing is, republicans are the party of cruelty
they would be fine with people starving next to vast bountiful farmland. it's the "i got mine, fuck you" culture
that states run by democrats take care of the poor in states run by republicans (mostly) is still a valid observation
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@inthehands the original thread has some gems in it, like how this is likely #aislop and the coloring of blue and red implies a party bias, New Mexico is a safely blue state yet a lot of people would make the assumption that states like NM that take more federal funds than pay into it would therefore be conservative. It would also be stronger to have citations that people can actually look into as well as concrete numbers rather than just blanket labeling
NM is just an outlier
like north dakota is an outlier because of the bakken oilfields
the outliers don't disprove the general and truthful trend that blue states take care of the poor in red states, mostly
why do you feel the need to object to the generally truthful trend? why not just acknowledge it?
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@inthehands also, I really don’t fucking like people who argue with other people about places THEY WERE BORN AND RAISED in.
Paul indicates they know of "Northern Colorado and Southern Wyoming"
so i don't know why you are objecting to their observations
i'm from connecticut but now live in western new york for many years. i think i can speak to life in western new york well enough. if someone would to be greatly offended at some of my observations this would indicate to me less that i don't know enough of the area, and more that i hit a nerve: the person doesn't like an uncomfortable truth
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NM is just an outlier
like north dakota is an outlier because of the bakken oilfields
the outliers don't disprove the general and truthful trend that blue states take care of the poor in red states, mostly
why do you feel the need to object to the generally truthful trend? why not just acknowledge it?
@benroyce @inthehands I’m not disputing the claim, my very first reply aligns myself with the claim. I’ve been aware of this statistic many times for years. What I’m calling for is better sources from the get go instead of a visually misleading graphic that likely wasn’t even created by a person. Wouldn’t this graphic be more effective if it provided the actual numbers of contributing vs receiving funds? Wouldn’t this be more effective if it listed sources that it pulled from?
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@benroyce @inthehands I’m not disputing the claim, my very first reply aligns myself with the claim. I’ve been aware of this statistic many times for years. What I’m calling for is better sources from the get go instead of a visually misleading graphic that likely wasn’t even created by a person. Wouldn’t this graphic be more effective if it provided the actual numbers of contributing vs receiving funds? Wouldn’t this be more effective if it listed sources that it pulled from?
i get you now
yeah i can agree we don't want ai slop or just sloppy charts and graphs
