A new progress report on living with (Net)BSD, with some artistry, too.
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@the_wub OpenBSD doesn't allow AI code based on the legality/license grounds, it seems. Which makes it a bit dangerous, I feel
@nina_kali_nina@tech.lgbt @the_wub@mastodon.social is NetBSD's objection different from OpenBSD's in this case? What makes theirs more dangerous. (Non-challenging tone, I actually don't know anything).
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@nina_kali_nina @rfnix
Maybe QBE can take over from gcc & llvm?
...
Oh god, I hope QBE doesn't get ensloppified. -
@nina_kali_nina cute mascot 🥺
@tammeow Thank you
I was hoping to draw something in PC98 style, but ran out of energy. I have a quick preview of a higher-resolution version, but I don't like the pose and the outfit in the sketch, so I probably will redraw from scratch one day -
@csgraves I suppose one option - that I'm seriously considering - is using obsolete software on period-correct hardware, just without any internet access. It isn't a way forward, but it can postpone the pain somewhat
@nina_kali_nina Do you also remember the days of single user computing and not being online all the time? We should go back to that.
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@nina_kali_nina @kirtai @rfnix Huh, TIL where Quentin works at.
That said Hare has a policy against LLMs so if QBE would get ensloppified there would be a fork, and so far from what I've gathered in hare channels, he would want to avoid that. -
@nina_kali_nina @the_wub
http://megatokyo.moe/dl/edge_pixel_art_editor/
also can't remember how openbsd tablet support is but i may need to keep my non-updated debian system around for my old usb wacom i suppose, i know openbsd doesn't support serial digitizers like my x61 tablet uses but think there might be some usb support
is the situation better in netbsd?@wyatt
OpenBSD, afaik, doesn't support pressure-sensitivity and do not plan to support pressure sensitivity. At the same time, the tablets I have all seem to work fine as simple digitisers.NetBSD has some support for pressure sensitivity for a couple of Intuos tablets, and has out-of-the-tree support for more Wacom and Huion tablets. The tablet driver I'm using reports pressure sensitivity just fine, but the X applications somehow do not receive it - presumably it should be possible to fix. I'm looking into it, among many other things.
cc @the_wub
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@nina_kali_nina @rfnix
Noooooo!!! -
@nina_kali_nina @kirtai @rfnix Huh, TIL where Quentin works at.
That said Hare has a policy against LLMs so if QBE would get ensloppified there would be a fork, and so far from what I've gathered in hare channels, he would want to avoid that.@lanodan @rfnix @nina_kali_nina
Well, at least it's not as gigantic as llvm & gcc. -
Another major computing need that I (and most others) have is modern internet. Things are not looking super great here.
For now, I'm using a fork/LTS release of Firefox. How long until it stops being supported, and the only option for a browser that can open modern web would be LLM-tainted one? Probably a month or so at best (and it's possible that the one I have is already tainted).
Using an outdated browser is a security risk I'm not willing to take.
So, I'll try to use more of sm0l web - Gemini, Gopher, no-js web. It's not the same.
I probably will still have to compromise on my "LLM boycott" and use a tainted web browser. I don't know, honestly. Sorry, I wish I knew what to do about it.
Ah, that was quite a long rant!
Thanks for reading. I guess what I wanted to say is that things aren't too bad on this side. Could've been better, but I'm managing to scrape by, making choices that I find important.
🧵 6/6
@nina_kali_nina Thanks for sharing all this, Nina. The journey is fascinating. Some of us (me) aren’t as smart as you and maybe can’t complete the same journey… all I know is, I have the same thoughts and feelings.
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@lanodan @rfnix @nina_kali_nina
Well, at least it's not as gigantic as llvm & gcc.@kirtai @rfnix @nina_kali_nina Yeah, definitely a project I consider forkable.
And I've lightly checked the diffs between the last few versions as part of packaging it for Gentoo (and got few very basic commits in QBE). -
@nina_kali_nina@tech.lgbt @the_wub@mastodon.social is NetBSD's objection different from OpenBSD's in this case? What makes theirs more dangerous. (Non-challenging tone, I actually don't know anything).
@BlueCaller now that you say that, I guess the difference here is that NetBSD has actually changed their policy saying explicitly that the code from LLMs is tainted, while OpenBSD did not, and even ingested some LLM-authored code in upstream (through "grandfathered" projects).
The truly anti-AI BSDs that are not "timecapsuled forks" right now are HyperbolaBSD and MirBSD, but it's going to be even harder to use them...
cc @the_wub
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@nina_kali_nina Do you also remember the days of single user computing and not being online all the time? We should go back to that.
@csgraves 100%
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@nina_kali_nina Thanks for sharing all this, Nina. The journey is fascinating. Some of us (me) aren’t as smart as you and maybe can’t complete the same journey… all I know is, I have the same thoughts and feelings.
@scottwilson Thank you. My hope is that there will be more people who can devote their time and energy to fixing snags and bugs and making quality software, and eventually it will be at least as simple as Ubuntu 20 years ago.
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Let's get some basics sorted out. Using NetBSD is generally more difficult than using Windows, MacOS or Linux. It is harder to configure, its hardware support is not as good, and there's fewer software options available. Depending on your needs and circumstances, using NetBSD (or OpenBSD, or FreeBSD) as your main operating system might be difficult or even impossible.
So, why bother, you might ask.
Well, I keep thinking about a metaphor; it might not be the most apt one, but I can't think of anything better: imagine that you're vegan, and you absolutely do not want to eat animal products. It is very obviously a choice. Now, if the supermarket does not sell vegan food, you are going to have a problem. Maybe you'll make your own tofu and seitan. It is not an easy life, but you try. Maybe you can't fully commit to it, because it's hard, but you feel like you (and everyone else) should have a choice.
So, if one wants to choose not to use LLM-tainted software, I'm afraid NetBSD is one of a few options.
🧵 2/?
@nina_kali_nina
Also, Linux was less easy than Windows back when I tried it on my particular hardware. I've been here before, I can be here again. -
My particular computing needs are complicated: I browse web, I play and make games, I explore old software, I draw, and I make music. On top of that, I do some writing, I work with spreadsheets, and of course I hang out with my friends and family online.
All those things, obviously, can be done on NetBSD. All those things come with some friction. Resolving this friction is generally highly rewarding.
Among recent examples:
- figuring out how to have graphical acceleration on my computer, so video playback is very smooth;
- configuring my desktop in such a way that my most commonly used programs (terminal, file browser, taskbar) are LLM-free;
- hacking around xf86-input-tablet driver to make my tablet work in NetBSD.
All of those taught me a lot about my computer. They were not as simple as I hoped, but they gave me a bit of agency over my computing needs.
🧵 3/?
Patching xf86-input-tablet to get a drawing tablet working is genuinely deep work. Curious what the sticking point was, driver quirks or something further down in the input stack?
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@nina_kali_nina I feel exactly the same way. People really have been betrayed by modern computer systems.
We had easy to use computers more than 40 years ago. Think of something like an Atari VCS - swap the cartridge and the machine does something completely different. No configuration, it just does the new thing that you wanted it to do.
No updates required. Not evet. Also no viruses or other malware. No ads. It just worked, for decades.
Tandy 100 and similar Kyocera laptops similarly just worked. I have one. It's 43 years old and still just works (if I put some new AA cells in it). No ads/malware/setting up etc.
That was how computers for the masses should have worked.
Instead of that, we now have a hellscape of a near infinite number of possible configurations, many of which directly harm the user, and the harm is often intentional (spyware, ads, designed in obsolescence to make you buy a new one etc)
It stinks.
(I'm also one if those people who can write drivers and stuff, and I shouldn't have to apologise to my mother for her computer doing stuff that neither she nor I understand !)
@MartinTaudio -
Another major computing need that I (and most others) have is modern internet. Things are not looking super great here.
For now, I'm using a fork/LTS release of Firefox. How long until it stops being supported, and the only option for a browser that can open modern web would be LLM-tainted one? Probably a month or so at best (and it's possible that the one I have is already tainted).
Using an outdated browser is a security risk I'm not willing to take.
So, I'll try to use more of sm0l web - Gemini, Gopher, no-js web. It's not the same.
I probably will still have to compromise on my "LLM boycott" and use a tainted web browser. I don't know, honestly. Sorry, I wish I knew what to do about it.
Ah, that was quite a long rant!
Thanks for reading. I guess what I wanted to say is that things aren't too bad on this side. Could've been better, but I'm managing to scrape by, making choices that I find important.
🧵 6/6
@nina_kali_nina there’s another fork of Firefox aiming to remove the user-hostile functionality and provide a base that can be used for a new independent browser: https://mastodon.social/@sarahjamielewis/117015823822638610
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@nina_kali_nina @elebertus Something that humans have and which LLMs lack, that could be used to construct a non-negative descriptor is a body. It's tempting to talk about things being handmade, or hand-typed, but that does exclude people that for whatever reason don't type using their hands.
Maybe something like "embodied" would work? We'd want to make it clear that the creator of the software is embodied, as opposed to the software. "Body-produced"? "Body-sourced"? "Body-made"?
@Ryan1729 @nina_kali_nina @elebertus How about sober computing?
You're the one in control. You stay away from the poison that's addictive and dangerous and yet ubiquitous.
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