Europeans don't, maybe sometimes can't, understand the absolute crushing pressure and gaslighting that most Americans are put through to make us the way we are.
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@TimWardCam @quinn AIUI a "food desert" is a place where it's impossible to get to a place to buy basic grocery items without long distance drive by a car you may not have.
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The rest of world never sees the poor and desperate America, they mostly stay in the decently rich bits of New York or California, and have no idea what a "food desert" is.
@quinn for decades your TV overwhelmingly presented an affluent white suburban middle class to be the normal way everyone lives. It took a very long time for media with a different perspective to reach us in any volume
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@quinn I've been saying this forever; the defining characteristic of Americans for a while now has been fear.
It only dawned on me after a conversation between a bunch of photographers talking about equipment when shooting solo at night. Little old English ladies talking about tea flasks and 30 year old ex military in the USA talking about how many guns.
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Europeans don't, maybe sometimes can't, understand the absolute crushing pressure and gaslighting that most Americans are put through to make us the way we are.
It's a decades long effort to turn most of the population into a money and power pump for a tiny elite class, all while grinding us into dust.
We're crazy and scared all the time, and have no idea what's going on in the rest of the world.
There's a reason dying of opiates seemed like a rational choice to a lot of people.
@quinn
began with the murder of social movement leaders in the 60's (MLK, JFK, X)
then,systematic dismantling of unions and shipping of blue collar and manufacturing jobs overseas by the investor class. then piss on you from above is sold as trickle down econ omics while social and educational programs get gutted... -
Europeans don't, maybe sometimes can't, understand the absolute crushing pressure and gaslighting that most Americans are put through to make us the way we are.
It's a decades long effort to turn most of the population into a money and power pump for a tiny elite class, all while grinding us into dust.
We're crazy and scared all the time, and have no idea what's going on in the rest of the world.
There's a reason dying of opiates seemed like a rational choice to a lot of people.
@quinn @quinn Many of us do, at least to a degree. Singing national anthems at school never seemed healthy to me.
And the USA has invented the “taking systemic faults and say they’re individual failures” that our (EU) neocon parties have so successfully copied.
The American Dream has always been pointing to the top 10% to make the 90% feel bad (‘motivated’). Say unions are for stupid people, then job insecurity and low wages will keep people from organizing.
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@quinn Americans also often don't travel within our own country.
One of my current neighbors thinks she would need pepper spray to travel abroad and she's disinterested in traveling more than a state or two away from home. She's so extremely angry but the other neighbors are so sweet to her. The fear has her trapped in this small corner of life and the smallness of her life has her angry, resentful, and clingy.
Folks have ideas about the other states informed by tv and news.
@clarablackink @quinn I had a friend who lived in a major city in Texas who was afraid of NYC and convinced you'd be immediately mugged or pickpocketed if you went there. The man has traveled to many places including tourist destinations in Mexico but somehow had NYC framed as a boogie man...
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Europeans don't, maybe sometimes can't, understand the absolute crushing pressure and gaslighting that most Americans are put through to make us the way we are.
It's a decades long effort to turn most of the population into a money and power pump for a tiny elite class, all while grinding us into dust.
We're crazy and scared all the time, and have no idea what's going on in the rest of the world.
There's a reason dying of opiates seemed like a rational choice to a lot of people.
@quinn oh I totally understand. Especially the opiate part. I don't think I'd be doing anything different if I was in your position.
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Europeans don't, maybe sometimes can't, understand the absolute crushing pressure and gaslighting that most Americans are put through to make us the way we are.
It's a decades long effort to turn most of the population into a money and power pump for a tiny elite class, all while grinding us into dust.
We're crazy and scared all the time, and have no idea what's going on in the rest of the world.
There's a reason dying of opiates seemed like a rational choice to a lot of people.
@TheQuinbox @quinn I suppose it's no different then then what most europeans felt between 1958 and 1993?
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@floe there's not really a moment like that. Recall that we leaned in on slavery until it caused one of, if not the, most bloody pre modern wars. Poverty and enslavement are our original sins.
@quinn @floe Great points on this thread, but I think there sort of was such a moment. In the 70s you get a lof of thinktanks worried about the "democratic surge" and "democratic distemper". For example:
Al Smith once remarked that "the only cure for the evils
of democracy is more democracy." Our analysis suggests that
applying that cure at the present time could well be adding
fuel to the flames. Instead, some of the problems of
governance in the United States today stem from an excess of
democracy— an "excess of democracy" in much the same
sense in which David Donald used the term to refer to the
consequences of the Jacksonian revolution which helped to
precipitate the Civil War. Needed, instead, is a greater degree
of moderation in democracy.
In practice, this moderation has two major areas of
application. First, democracy is only one way of constituting
authority, and it is not necessarily a universally applicable
one. In many situations the claims of expertise, seniority,
experience, and special talents may override the claims of
democracy as a way of constituting authority. During the
surge of the 1960s, however, the democratic principle was
extended to many institutions where it can, in the long run,
only frustrate the purposes of those institutions. A university
where teaching appointments are subject to approval by
students may be a more democratic university but it is not
likely to be a better university. In similar fashion, armies in
which the commands of officers have been subject to veto by
the collective wisdom of their subordinates have almost invariably
come to disaster on the battlefield. The arenas where
democratic procedures are appropriate are, in short, limited.
Second, the effective operation of a democratic political
system usually requires some measure of apathy and
noninvolvement on the part of some individuals and groups.
In the past, every democratic society has had a marginal
population, of greater or lesser size, which has not actively
participated in politics. In itself, this marginality on the part
of some groups is inherently undemocratic, but it has also
been one of the factors which has enabled democracy to
function effectively. Marginal social groups, as in the case of
the blacks, are now becoming full participants in the political
system. Yet the danger of overloading the political system
with demands which extend its functions and undermine its
authority still remains. Less marginality on the part of some
groups thus needs to be replaced by more self-restraint on the
part of all groups. -
@TimWardCam @dalias @quinn Most neighborhoods in the US don't even have walkable shops anymore. They've been squeezed out by ridiculous zoning laws, mostly created at the behest of large chains like Walmart and Costco. If I want a loaf of bread, I have to travel a minimum of three miles to pay $7.50 for a small loaf, or go five miles to get a decent loaf at a decent price. And what we call "bread" here is mostly fillers and preservatives, effectively poisoning us.
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Europeans don't, maybe sometimes can't, understand the absolute crushing pressure and gaslighting that most Americans are put through to make us the way we are.
It's a decades long effort to turn most of the population into a money and power pump for a tiny elite class, all while grinding us into dust.
We're crazy and scared all the time, and have no idea what's going on in the rest of the world.
There's a reason dying of opiates seemed like a rational choice to a lot of people.
@quinn being from abroad, it's easy to despise the country. But, if choosing to get outside the trodden road, it's easier to feel empathy with the people while hating the system oppressing most of them.
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@TimWardCam @dalias @quinn Most neighborhoods in the US don't even have walkable shops anymore. They've been squeezed out by ridiculous zoning laws, mostly created at the behest of large chains like Walmart and Costco. If I want a loaf of bread, I have to travel a minimum of three miles to pay $7.50 for a small loaf, or go five miles to get a decent loaf at a decent price. And what we call "bread" here is mostly fillers and preservatives, effectively poisoning us.
@deadtom @dalias @quinn I have to walk half a mile to buy decent bread (I'm pretty sure that my nearest shop, which I boycott for other reasons, only has wrapped sliced bread that tastes of blotting paper). If I want anything more exotic than that I have to walk or cycle about a mile and a half (and I've got a choice of directions to do that). (But mostly we make our own bread.)
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@TheQuinbox @quinn I suppose it's no different then then what most europeans felt between 1958 and 1993?
They were literally rebuilding their cities from rubble, so it's a bit different.
CC: @TheQuinbox@dragonscave.space @quinn@social.circl.lu -
They were literally rebuilding their cities from rubble, so it's a bit different.
CC: @TheQuinbox@dragonscave.space @quinn@social.circl.lu@cy @TheQuinbox @quinn In some ways yes it is, but how much gasslighting do yo uthink went on tin the eastern block?
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@NickSchwanck @nazokiyoubinbou @quinn
Convenience addiction
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@pixie @quinn I think most Americans don't know what complete poverty looks like. Or what being bombed or shot in your home looks like. Or what slave labor looks like. All these things happen in the US today; but they usually target people with the least political power--like children, disabled, indigenous people, and racial minorities. So it's hushed up, or people don't care because "oh that'll never be me." This is the "peripheral" inside the US.
"I think most Americans don't know what complete poverty looks like. Or what being bombed or shot in your home looks like. Or what slave labor looks like."
i expect more & more americans are going to get a forceful education in this as things rapidly deteriorate here. no excuses. we let it happen.
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@TimWardCam @dalias @quinn I have family in places where the closest "local junk" is a 10+ mile walk away (meaning quality food is even further). We have massive problems with our food supply and infrastructure
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Europeans don't, maybe sometimes can't, understand the absolute crushing pressure and gaslighting that most Americans are put through to make us the way we are.
It's a decades long effort to turn most of the population into a money and power pump for a tiny elite class, all while grinding us into dust.
We're crazy and scared all the time, and have no idea what's going on in the rest of the world.
There's a reason dying of opiates seemed like a rational choice to a lot of people.
Yeah like, I get enough to eat, and a roof over my head, and nothing else. No land, no freedom, no power, no influence, no friends, no community, no support, no family, no career, no skills, and practically no medical care. And I'm extremely privileged compared to most people here. (Except for family. Most people are allowed to have a family.)
But even the luxuries I have are very effective at making me invisible and robbing me of any power to fight back. If I rock the boat too much, I might starve to death! Like, literally!
I don't want to know what's going on in the rest of the world either, because it's always bad news. Terror and despair and nothing else.
Well, that's why I'm trying to claw friendship and community out of this stupid polyanna church... better than nothing, I suppose. -
@cy @TheQuinbox @quinn In some ways yes it is, but how much gasslighting do yo uthink went on tin the eastern block?
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@quinn I... honestly don't even think Europe is much better than that, it varies by country but as a subcontinent we're pretty much only ever a few years away from the US with regards to how bad shit is politically
If anything I often feel Americans are more compassionate, less passive, more willing to fight for their and their communities' lives
In my part of the world at least people have given up and are just willing to roll over for anyone who comes in with a bit of power because hey, if you lick the boot maybe it won't kick you? (it invariably does)
@hazelnot @quinn in my experience the average US citizen is either about as selfish as it gets or is too worn out to be able to actually be nice with regularity. What we project online or while abroad is almost nothing like I see day to day. We may have our moments (like the No Kings protests), but they're not even remotely common enough. I agree, Europe isn't too far off in terms of politics, but Europeans, on average (and there are exceptions, obviously), tend to actually get vacations, maternity leave, paternity leave, etc to actually rest. We don't and that lack of rest and constant anxiety is why we're some of the least empathetic people I've ever come across. We haven't given up...we don't even know there is a boot to lick in the first place.
I live in what is universally considered the most "progressive" and LGBTQA positive area of the US. The most hateful, spiteful, racist, bigoted people I've ever met were born and raised here. A lot of it has to do with our awful education system, being over worked (90 hour work weeks aren't rare here), some of the worst roads that we get packed into like sardines, not to mention generational trauma that gets loaded onto the next generation (god forbid you go to therapy like a "coward"). Americans are severely misunderstood, by even ourselves sometimes. And that's the problem. We can't take the time to chill out and have a conversation to break down those barriers.
