Emigrating has generally been a very, very complicated and difficult task, but by far the hardest aspect has been relearning how to use a knife and fork.
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@EndlessMason Salad catcher? Salads are in bowls in the US. If you eat salad on a burger, you're apt to get a mouthful of bowl. @osma @hacks4pancakes
@weezmgk @osma @hacks4pancakes
This isn't a macdonalds ad, and I don't work fastfood any more, so I'm not naming all the individual vegetables in the burger⸸__
⸸. Since I'm a person with vegetarianism it's technically a salad roll, but "burger with the lot, no meat" is the closest thing on the menu -
I thought everyone knew this but ....
Neurodivergent story time!In the era of French aristocracy, American culture was just starting to get posh. And Americans (colonists then citizens) at the time decided great high class table manners meant copying high French fashion. So they adopted this weird "zig zag" method of eating where we only eat with the fork in our right hands facing up like you'd scoop food, but also only use the knife in our right hands. So every time you cut something you set the fork down and switch hands, then switch back. We can't eat with a fork in our left hand (if we were raised with strict table manners that don't care about handedness).
America did that big revolution and our big freedom thing and never switched back. The rest of the world moved on to knife in the right hand, fork in the left turned downward whilst cutting stuff.
You can always tell an American while eating by how we use the knife and fork. It's how they caught spies in WWII. Turns out it is incredibly hard to relearn XD
@hacks4pancakes I’ve heard different explanations for this which tie the switch to westward American expansion, where Americans gave up the knife altogether and used the fork sideways as a cutting instrument - this allowed them to eliminate carrying one knife for every fork on the wagon trains, thereby cutting down on weight. No idea if there is truth to this or not.
It took 2 years for me to learn how to use the fork in my left hand and knife in my right after moving to Portugal! My kid, who was five when she came here, kept calling it out (she learned to eat the European way in the canteen at school where they make the kids hold the knife and fork in this manner) so my wife and I had to adapt
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A civilized burger is served on a plate, so you can lift off excess bread and eat it with a knife and fork in left and right hand, respectively. We don't eat one on horseback, after all.
(I do enjoy an occasional brutish burger of course)
Edit: I will pretend I intended to place the utensils in barbarian order above. You will pretend to believe it. That is Civilized.
@EndlessMason @weezmgk @hacks4pancakes@osma @weezmgk @hacks4pancakes
You're thinking of a trencher -
@osma can't you just put chunks of food on the reindeer antlers? @EndlessMason @hacks4pancakes
Have you *seen* reindeer antlers up close? They're fine for hanging your coat on, but as far as eating utensils, you can make the knife handle out of them. A fine knife, that one. Good for killing polar bears with. We don't do that barehanded, either.
@weezmgk @EndlessMason @hacks4pancakes -
@jpm Its how they caught spies in WWII
because it's so hard to break that habit.@hacks4pancakes @jpm Wasn’t there even a US squadron commander(or some such) in England who insisted that his pilots all learn to eat in the continental manner, and actually do that every day in the mess hall, so they would have a better chance to go unnoticed when they got picked up by the French resistance after being shot down?
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@osma @weezmgk @hacks4pancakes
You're thinking of a trencherThat's for soft cheese, obviously!
@EndlessMason @weezmgk @hacks4pancakes -
@hacks4pancakes If it helps, I can tell you that although I was raised in Europe, with a strict fork-in-left-hand rule, I never obeyed by it, because I felt fork in the right had was more convenient (i.e. knife in left hand).
I still do it to this day, and having eaten at both plain and fancy occasions in many places the world, I've survived.
But, on a similar topic, I have noticed that Americans very often tend to use a fork only, and then use the fork to cut things. I don't know if it stands out, but I notice it.
(perhaps people notice my holding the fork wrong and they're just too polite to mention it?)
Edit: One more thing: The only time my knife-in-left-hand gives me trouble is when I go to a fancy restaurant and they have those special fish knives. Those are difficult to use with the left hand.
@loke @hacks4pancakes w.o.w. - who have thought.
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There's two kinds of fish and chips. The pre-cut cheaper bits of fish, and the whole-fillet with a side of mashed peas and a lot of tartar sauce kind. How you eat the better kind *without* a knife and fork boggles the mind.
@EndlessMason @weezmgk @hacks4pancakes@osma @weezmgk @hacks4pancakes
The bits are called Kibbeling!I assume if you get a fillet (breaded or not), and cut it up yourself you are the one doing the Kibbeling.
Pretty sure that's how tense works in english.
(Edit: "Kibbeling")
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Emigrating has generally been a very, very complicated and difficult task, but by far the hardest aspect has been relearning how to use a knife and fork. It's way harder than accents or driving on the other side of the road.
@hacks4pancakes I grew up ambiforkstrous in Canada. The zig-zag approach was common because we typically imported everything from the US, including table manners. The immigrants from other countries would take and leave the imports, and we'd end up with a mix.
I ended up being able to "code switch" my table manners depending on where I was.
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@osma @weezmgk @hacks4pancakes
The bits are called Kibbeling!I assume if you get a fillet (breaded or not), and cut it up yourself you are the one doing the Kibbeling.
Pretty sure that's how tense works in english.
(Edit: "Kibbeling")
Thanks, that's a new word for me.
@EndlessMason @weezmgk @hacks4pancakes -
This is legitimately not a joke. I feel so stupid and clumsy. I'm not sure I will ever get it down even though I try every single time I go out to dinner. And I was raised with strict table manners and can eat with chopsticks perfectly, too.
@hacks4pancakes I have some US expat friends that still struggle with this after 10+ yrs being here.
But also, so much of our social circle is new or 1 generation here, that doing things differently is not that different. -
I thought everyone knew this but ....
Neurodivergent story time!In the era of French aristocracy, American culture was just starting to get posh. And Americans (colonists then citizens) at the time decided great high class table manners meant copying high French fashion. So they adopted this weird "zig zag" method of eating where we only eat with the fork in our right hands facing up like you'd scoop food, but also only use the knife in our right hands. So every time you cut something you set the fork down and switch hands, then switch back. We can't eat with a fork in our left hand (if we were raised with strict table manners that don't care about handedness).
America did that big revolution and our big freedom thing and never switched back. The rest of the world moved on to knife in the right hand, fork in the left turned downward whilst cutting stuff.
You can always tell an American while eating by how we use the knife and fork. It's how they caught spies in WWII. Turns out it is incredibly hard to relearn XD
My family moved from California to Bangkok when I was a kid, and I was fascinated that everyone there used the same familiar forks and spoons, but in a completely different way (no cross, and no table knives).
Being able to flip between silverware eating styles is like being bilingual. Surprisingly easy for kids, surprisingly hard for adults.
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I thought everyone knew this but ....
Neurodivergent story time!In the era of French aristocracy, American culture was just starting to get posh. And Americans (colonists then citizens) at the time decided great high class table manners meant copying high French fashion. So they adopted this weird "zig zag" method of eating where we only eat with the fork in our right hands facing up like you'd scoop food, but also only use the knife in our right hands. So every time you cut something you set the fork down and switch hands, then switch back. We can't eat with a fork in our left hand (if we were raised with strict table manners that don't care about handedness).
America did that big revolution and our big freedom thing and never switched back. The rest of the world moved on to knife in the right hand, fork in the left turned downward whilst cutting stuff.
You can always tell an American while eating by how we use the knife and fork. It's how they caught spies in WWII. Turns out it is incredibly hard to relearn XD
@hacks4pancakes thank you for teaching me a new bit of knowledge. I did not know this difference in table manners and would not have expected that even with something so basic such differences could exist.
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I thought everyone knew this but ....
Neurodivergent story time!In the era of French aristocracy, American culture was just starting to get posh. And Americans (colonists then citizens) at the time decided great high class table manners meant copying high French fashion. So they adopted this weird "zig zag" method of eating where we only eat with the fork in our right hands facing up like you'd scoop food, but also only use the knife in our right hands. So every time you cut something you set the fork down and switch hands, then switch back. We can't eat with a fork in our left hand (if we were raised with strict table manners that don't care about handedness).
America did that big revolution and our big freedom thing and never switched back. The rest of the world moved on to knife in the right hand, fork in the left turned downward whilst cutting stuff.
You can always tell an American while eating by how we use the knife and fork. It's how they caught spies in WWII. Turns out it is incredibly hard to relearn XD
@hacks4pancakes oh, interesting, I didn’t know it was supposed to be good table manners in the US! I have watched American colleagues eat like that and wondered why they make it so complicated?
But I can understand how difficult it must be to unlearn. It’s very much muscle memory. -
I thought everyone knew this but ....
Neurodivergent story time!In the era of French aristocracy, American culture was just starting to get posh. And Americans (colonists then citizens) at the time decided great high class table manners meant copying high French fashion. So they adopted this weird "zig zag" method of eating where we only eat with the fork in our right hands facing up like you'd scoop food, but also only use the knife in our right hands. So every time you cut something you set the fork down and switch hands, then switch back. We can't eat with a fork in our left hand (if we were raised with strict table manners that don't care about handedness).
America did that big revolution and our big freedom thing and never switched back. The rest of the world moved on to knife in the right hand, fork in the left turned downward whilst cutting stuff.
You can always tell an American while eating by how we use the knife and fork. It's how they caught spies in WWII. Turns out it is incredibly hard to relearn XD
@hacks4pancakes which one of the three forks are you talking about?
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@hacks4pancakes If it helps, I can tell you that although I was raised in Europe, with a strict fork-in-left-hand rule, I never obeyed by it, because I felt fork in the right had was more convenient (i.e. knife in left hand).
I still do it to this day, and having eaten at both plain and fancy occasions in many places the world, I've survived.
But, on a similar topic, I have noticed that Americans very often tend to use a fork only, and then use the fork to cut things. I don't know if it stands out, but I notice it.
(perhaps people notice my holding the fork wrong and they're just too polite to mention it?)
Edit: One more thing: The only time my knife-in-left-hand gives me trouble is when I go to a fancy restaurant and they have those special fish knives. Those are difficult to use with the left hand.
@loke @hacks4pancakes I thought that there was a rule that left-handed people can use the opposite hands.
So left-hand knife, right-hand fork.
And Hacks, I vaguely recall a post from ages ago where you mentioned you're left handed?
So you might have an out there? -
Thanks, that's a new word for me.
@EndlessMason @weezmgk @hacks4pancakes@osma @weezmgk @hacks4pancakes
lmao, it's both dutch, and misspelled -
Emigrating has generally been a very, very complicated and difficult task, but by far the hardest aspect has been relearning how to use a knife and fork. It's way harder than accents or driving on the other side of the road.
@hacks4pancakes young me would switch hands depending on what i found easier for each task, which was absolutely considered a crime in my british grandmothers house
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I thought everyone knew this but ....
Neurodivergent story time!In the era of French aristocracy, American culture was just starting to get posh. And Americans (colonists then citizens) at the time decided great high class table manners meant copying high French fashion. So they adopted this weird "zig zag" method of eating where we only eat with the fork in our right hands facing up like you'd scoop food, but also only use the knife in our right hands. So every time you cut something you set the fork down and switch hands, then switch back. We can't eat with a fork in our left hand (if we were raised with strict table manners that don't care about handedness).
America did that big revolution and our big freedom thing and never switched back. The rest of the world moved on to knife in the right hand, fork in the left turned downward whilst cutting stuff.
You can always tell an American while eating by how we use the knife and fork. It's how they caught spies in WWII. Turns out it is incredibly hard to relearn XD
@hacks4pancakes Well, at least I did not know this 🫣
But I don't understand the american cutting part: put down the fork, use the right hand for the knife to cut. When I wish to cut sth, I need a second hand to hold that potato (e.g) in position (using my fork) while cutting it. How do Americans do that? Questions, questions,questions.... -
I thought everyone knew this but ....
Neurodivergent story time!In the era of French aristocracy, American culture was just starting to get posh. And Americans (colonists then citizens) at the time decided great high class table manners meant copying high French fashion. So they adopted this weird "zig zag" method of eating where we only eat with the fork in our right hands facing up like you'd scoop food, but also only use the knife in our right hands. So every time you cut something you set the fork down and switch hands, then switch back. We can't eat with a fork in our left hand (if we were raised with strict table manners that don't care about handedness).
America did that big revolution and our big freedom thing and never switched back. The rest of the world moved on to knife in the right hand, fork in the left turned downward whilst cutting stuff.
You can always tell an American while eating by how we use the knife and fork. It's how they caught spies in WWII. Turns out it is incredibly hard to relearn XD
@hacks4pancakes I might not have learned *strict* table manners, but I learned that the fork should point in a 90° angle from the hand held only with the first few fingers, like holding a pen. If it is linear with the arm and maybe even held with all fingers (goddess!
) that's terrible 
But I also never learned to switch knife and fork. So I "eat like a left-handed person" (surprise, I'm partially ambidextrous).
Additional rules included things like: never cut potatoes (or fries/chips) with a knife, break them with the fork, never put used cutlery back on the table.
Oh, and never put your hands under the table, but lift the arm going to the mouth from the table.What I read somewhere about US use of cutlery was, that the standard way was to cut everything (like meat) at the beginning, then put the knife down and eat with the fork in the right hand, left hand on your left tigh. Some years later I saw think in reality and it was fascinating.
I'm terrible at using chopsticks though. My ADHD problem with micromovements makes it hard to control my fingers like I need to. Similar to hand writing: I can write, but it looks always irregular and every time I write the same sentence it looks irregular in a different way.
