Emigrating has generally been a very, very complicated and difficult task, but by far the hardest aspect has been relearning how to use a knife and fork.
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@pagra @hacks4pancakes that is very old fashioned. In the posh restaurants they have enough staff to bring stuff when needed. Max two dishes ahead is now the rule for a traditional menu, and only as needed for a tasting menu.
@Klara @hacks4pancakes yes of course, it was only for the joke
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@hacks4pancakes I might not have learned *strict* table manners, but I learned that the fork should point in a 90° angle from the hand held only with the first few fingers, like holding a pen. If it is linear with the arm and maybe even held with all fingers (goddess!
) that's terrible 
But I also never learned to switch knife and fork. So I "eat like a left-handed person" (surprise, I'm partially ambidextrous).
Additional rules included things like: never cut potatoes (or fries/chips) with a knife, break them with the fork, never put used cutlery back on the table.
Oh, and never put your hands under the table, but lift the arm going to the mouth from the table.What I read somewhere about US use of cutlery was, that the standard way was to cut everything (like meat) at the beginning, then put the knife down and eat with the fork in the right hand, left hand on your left tigh. Some years later I saw think in reality and it was fascinating.
I'm terrible at using chopsticks though. My ADHD problem with micromovements makes it hard to control my fingers like I need to. Similar to hand writing: I can write, but it looks always irregular and every time I write the same sentence it looks irregular in a different way.
@sashag @hacks4pancakes I have the same problem with writing, but not with chopsticks. As a kid my brother and I trained for a chinese meal that was planned with friends, and we got permission to eat a whole week with chopsticks (cutting potatoes and meat first) so I even master peas.
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I thought everyone knew this but ....
Neurodivergent story time!In the era of French aristocracy, American culture was just starting to get posh. And Americans (colonists then citizens) at the time decided great high class table manners meant copying high French fashion. So they adopted this weird "zig zag" method of eating where we only eat with the fork in our right hands facing up like you'd scoop food, but also only use the knife in our right hands. So every time you cut something you set the fork down and switch hands, then switch back. We can't eat with a fork in our left hand (if we were raised with strict table manners that don't care about handedness).
America did that big revolution and our big freedom thing and never switched back. The rest of the world moved on to knife in the right hand, fork in the left turned downward whilst cutting stuff.
You can always tell an American while eating by how we use the knife and fork. It's how they caught spies in WWII. Turns out it is incredibly hard to relearn XD
@hacks4pancakes I'm probably not in the right social circles, because when take a look around in the cantina at work, probably 70% will - like me - keep the fork in their right hand and cut with the left. I remember being told when I was a kid that it was supposed to be the other way around, but it was never enforced by anybody.
And how badly cooked must your meal be to justify using your dominant hand for cutting? -
@hacks4pancakes If it helps, I can tell you that although I was raised in Europe, with a strict fork-in-left-hand rule, I never obeyed by it, because I felt fork in the right had was more convenient (i.e. knife in left hand).
I still do it to this day, and having eaten at both plain and fancy occasions in many places the world, I've survived.
But, on a similar topic, I have noticed that Americans very often tend to use a fork only, and then use the fork to cut things. I don't know if it stands out, but I notice it.
(perhaps people notice my holding the fork wrong and they're just too polite to mention it?)
Edit: One more thing: The only time my knife-in-left-hand gives me trouble is when I go to a fancy restaurant and they have those special fish knives. Those are difficult to use with the left hand.
@loke I'm the same. I eat with the fork in right hand as well. So does my dad. Why wouldn't I hold the tool I use most in my dominant hand? I think it's an absolutely silly rule. Not once did anybody even mention that I do it "the wrong way" and Swiss people have stick up their butt when it comes to nonsensical rules. Or maybe I just haven't eaten with people who see themselves as fancy enough to care
@hacks4pancakes if you don't plan to spend a lot of time around people with more money than sense I wouldn't stress about the fork. -
@Klara @hacks4pancakes yes of course, it was only for the joke
@pagra @hacks4pancakes but the order and kind of implements is correct. Useful diagram for reenacting, or for going full Mrs Bouquet/Bucket on someone.
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I thought everyone knew this but ....
Neurodivergent story time!In the era of French aristocracy, American culture was just starting to get posh. And Americans (colonists then citizens) at the time decided great high class table manners meant copying high French fashion. So they adopted this weird "zig zag" method of eating where we only eat with the fork in our right hands facing up like you'd scoop food, but also only use the knife in our right hands. So every time you cut something you set the fork down and switch hands, then switch back. We can't eat with a fork in our left hand (if we were raised with strict table manners that don't care about handedness).
America did that big revolution and our big freedom thing and never switched back. The rest of the world moved on to knife in the right hand, fork in the left turned downward whilst cutting stuff.
You can always tell an American while eating by how we use the knife and fork. It's how they caught spies in WWII. Turns out it is incredibly hard to relearn XD
@hacks4pancakes
I learned something new today! Ta! -
@loke I'm the same. I eat with the fork in right hand as well. So does my dad. Why wouldn't I hold the tool I use most in my dominant hand? I think it's an absolutely silly rule. Not once did anybody even mention that I do it "the wrong way" and Swiss people have stick up their butt when it comes to nonsensical rules. Or maybe I just haven't eaten with people who see themselves as fancy enough to care
@hacks4pancakes if you don't plan to spend a lot of time around people with more money than sense I wouldn't stress about the fork.@gilgwath @hacks4pancakes my parents were always bugging me about it. They don't anymore though. I think after half a century they've concluded I'm a lost cause or something.
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I thought everyone knew this but ....
Neurodivergent story time!In the era of French aristocracy, American culture was just starting to get posh. And Americans (colonists then citizens) at the time decided great high class table manners meant copying high French fashion. So they adopted this weird "zig zag" method of eating where we only eat with the fork in our right hands facing up like you'd scoop food, but also only use the knife in our right hands. So every time you cut something you set the fork down and switch hands, then switch back. We can't eat with a fork in our left hand (if we were raised with strict table manners that don't care about handedness).
America did that big revolution and our big freedom thing and never switched back. The rest of the world moved on to knife in the right hand, fork in the left turned downward whilst cutting stuff.
You can always tell an American while eating by how we use the knife and fork. It's how they caught spies in WWII. Turns out it is incredibly hard to relearn XD
full blooded USian here. I'm right handed and mostly use fork/left knife/right when using both.
But I probably favor fork in right hand when eating something that doesn't require a knife.
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Emigrating has generally been a very, very complicated and difficult task, but by far the hardest aspect has been relearning how to use a knife and fork. It's way harder than accents or driving on the other side of the road.
@hacks4pancakes Please, don't follow whatever some silly historic idea demands. Use what feels natural to you.
I am right handed, so the equipment that does the most delicate and demanding tasks (the fork) stays in the right hand.
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@hacks4pancakes which one of the three forks are you talking about?
@pagra @hacks4pancakes in my experience any place fancy enough to use the full set of cutlery like that will also be polite enough to never correct their guests. Even if you eat mussels using the butter knife or similar cutlery crimes. They will just silently replace the used item.
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@hacks4pancakes If it helps, I can tell you that although I was raised in Europe, with a strict fork-in-left-hand rule, I never obeyed by it, because I felt fork in the right had was more convenient (i.e. knife in left hand).
I still do it to this day, and having eaten at both plain and fancy occasions in many places the world, I've survived.
But, on a similar topic, I have noticed that Americans very often tend to use a fork only, and then use the fork to cut things. I don't know if it stands out, but I notice it.
(perhaps people notice my holding the fork wrong and they're just too polite to mention it?)
Edit: One more thing: The only time my knife-in-left-hand gives me trouble is when I go to a fancy restaurant and they have those special fish knives. Those are difficult to use with the left hand.
@loke @hacks4pancakes This is the way for doing things naturally instead of following crazy traditions.
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I thought everyone knew this but ....
Neurodivergent story time!In the era of French aristocracy, American culture was just starting to get posh. And Americans (colonists then citizens) at the time decided great high class table manners meant copying high French fashion. So they adopted this weird "zig zag" method of eating where we only eat with the fork in our right hands facing up like you'd scoop food, but also only use the knife in our right hands. So every time you cut something you set the fork down and switch hands, then switch back. We can't eat with a fork in our left hand (if we were raised with strict table manners that don't care about handedness).
America did that big revolution and our big freedom thing and never switched back. The rest of the world moved on to knife in the right hand, fork in the left turned downward whilst cutting stuff.
You can always tell an American while eating by how we use the knife and fork. It's how they caught spies in WWII. Turns out it is incredibly hard to relearn XD
@hacks4pancakes lol I learned about this in my early 20s. Taught myself to eat the “European” way. It’s been noticed by people when I travel. “You don’t eat like an American.”
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@hacks4pancakes I spent a lot of time in the US as a European and never noticed this. Fascinating!
The only cutlery related thing I can remember is some lady eating spaghetti by twirling them around her fork with her free hand but I doubt that’s a common thing.@zaicurity @hacks4pancakes What other method of eating spaghetti is there? Italians always twirl it around the fork.
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I thought everyone knew this but ....
Neurodivergent story time!In the era of French aristocracy, American culture was just starting to get posh. And Americans (colonists then citizens) at the time decided great high class table manners meant copying high French fashion. So they adopted this weird "zig zag" method of eating where we only eat with the fork in our right hands facing up like you'd scoop food, but also only use the knife in our right hands. So every time you cut something you set the fork down and switch hands, then switch back. We can't eat with a fork in our left hand (if we were raised with strict table manners that don't care about handedness).
America did that big revolution and our big freedom thing and never switched back. The rest of the world moved on to knife in the right hand, fork in the left turned downward whilst cutting stuff.
You can always tell an American while eating by how we use the knife and fork. It's how they caught spies in WWII. Turns out it is incredibly hard to relearn XD
@hacks4pancakes French here, raised by left-handed parents
My sister and I could never bring ourselves to use the knife the way we were supposed to; we were confused first that our parents would apparently set the table in reverse, being confused themselves, and by the entire silliness of it all
So we chose one way and we stuck to it, and if anyone ever noticed, usually as soon as I sit down and feel the need to correct the position of the set in front of me, the most that happened was a curious comment, our amused response and their defeated agreement that indeed, it’s so much easier
When I set a table for guests, I just make a slight effort to picture how I’d place everything for myself and I flip that
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I thought everyone knew this but ....
Neurodivergent story time!In the era of French aristocracy, American culture was just starting to get posh. And Americans (colonists then citizens) at the time decided great high class table manners meant copying high French fashion. So they adopted this weird "zig zag" method of eating where we only eat with the fork in our right hands facing up like you'd scoop food, but also only use the knife in our right hands. So every time you cut something you set the fork down and switch hands, then switch back. We can't eat with a fork in our left hand (if we were raised with strict table manners that don't care about handedness).
America did that big revolution and our big freedom thing and never switched back. The rest of the world moved on to knife in the right hand, fork in the left turned downward whilst cutting stuff.
You can always tell an American while eating by how we use the knife and fork. It's how they caught spies in WWII. Turns out it is incredibly hard to relearn XD
@hacks4pancakes I spent 15 years in China and definitely prefer using chopsticks whenever possible, which means I usually eat with chopsticks at home.
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I thought everyone knew this but ....
Neurodivergent story time!In the era of French aristocracy, American culture was just starting to get posh. And Americans (colonists then citizens) at the time decided great high class table manners meant copying high French fashion. So they adopted this weird "zig zag" method of eating where we only eat with the fork in our right hands facing up like you'd scoop food, but also only use the knife in our right hands. So every time you cut something you set the fork down and switch hands, then switch back. We can't eat with a fork in our left hand (if we were raised with strict table manners that don't care about handedness).
America did that big revolution and our big freedom thing and never switched back. The rest of the world moved on to knife in the right hand, fork in the left turned downward whilst cutting stuff.
You can always tell an American while eating by how we use the knife and fork. It's how they caught spies in WWII. Turns out it is incredibly hard to relearn XD
@hacks4pancakes Aggressively stabbing the food with the fork, and holding it with the fist during cutting has never even hinted at "posh" to me. I would never have guessed that it came from anything other than a peasant practice!
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@hacks4pancakes I spent a lot of time in the US as a European and never noticed this. Fascinating!
The only cutlery related thing I can remember is some lady eating spaghetti by twirling them around her fork with her free hand but I doubt that’s a common thing.About the spaghetti:
That's the way every German I know eats them. We usually place the tips of the fork in a spoon to twirl the spaghetti, whereas Italians don't use a spoon.I only realized that some people don't eat spaghetti this way when my American host family watched me eating my spaghetti.
They would cut them, which seems barbaric to me. (We would always buy extra long spaghetti
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Emigrating has generally been a very, very complicated and difficult task, but by far the hardest aspect has been relearning how to use a knife and fork. It's way harder than accents or driving on the other side of the road.
@hacks4pancakes and then there are the things you learn unconsciously. I worked in southern turkey for two years and when I came back to Belgium I found out I had unlearned to make eye contact in public.
Harder to learn was greeting the French colleagues. In Belgium being we kiss family or very close friends or French speaking colleagues 1 or 3 times, starting on the left cheek. The French do 2 or 4 times, starting on the right cheek. You can imagine how that worked out. -
@hacks4pancakes If it helps, I can tell you that although I was raised in Europe, with a strict fork-in-left-hand rule, I never obeyed by it, because I felt fork in the right had was more convenient (i.e. knife in left hand).
I still do it to this day, and having eaten at both plain and fancy occasions in many places the world, I've survived.
But, on a similar topic, I have noticed that Americans very often tend to use a fork only, and then use the fork to cut things. I don't know if it stands out, but I notice it.
(perhaps people notice my holding the fork wrong and they're just too polite to mention it?)
Edit: One more thing: The only time my knife-in-left-hand gives me trouble is when I go to a fancy restaurant and they have those special fish knives. Those are difficult to use with the left hand.
@loke @hacks4pancakes I was told in France that Americans are easy to spot because we eat with one hand, with only a fork, instead of using a knife or piece of bread in the other hand to push against. Fortunately I wasn't a spy.
OR WAS I
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@weezmgk @osma @hacks4pancakes
counter point: eating pizza or fish and chips with a knife and fork is bonkers@EndlessMason @weezmgk @osma @hacks4pancakes my boys are trying to educate my husband on that point. For hamburger it is now 50/50, but for pizza he always needs a knife and fork, and eats it like a moon, starting on one side and cutting an ever bigger area from that side.
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