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  3. Surveillance Considered Harmful

Surveillance Considered Harmful

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  • masek@infosec.exchangeM This user is from outside of this forum
    masek@infosec.exchangeM This user is from outside of this forum
    masek@infosec.exchange
    wrote sidst redigeret af
    #1

    Surveillance Considered Harmful

    There is an interesting detail emerging from the attempted terrorist attack on Flydubai Flight 1073.

    According to current reports, the co-pilot had already been barred from flying by Oman Air because of concerns about extremist views. Yet somehow he ended up flying for Flydubai. And somehow an Omani citizen, from a country whose pilots are not allowed to fly into Israel, ended up in the cockpit of a flight to Tel Aviv (Source: https://apnews.com/article/cf64a228799e6e788e834cac2a489ab2).

    This happened in a region containing some of the most heavily surveilled societies on the planet. Saudi Arabia, where the aircraft eventually landed, is a particularly extreme example: internet activity, social media and private communications are subject to extensive state surveillance (Source: https://freedomhouse.org/country/saudi-arabia/freedom-net/2025). Other Gulf states are not far behind in the scale and reach of their surveillance.

    And yet here we are. This points to a more fundamental problem with surveillance as a weapon against terrorism.

    What does a terrorist actually want?

    Physical destruction is only the means. The real target is psychological: fear, distrust, disruption and ultimately the fragmentation of society. A terrorist cannot destroy a society through physical violence alone. But it may be sufficient to make that society afraid enough to start damaging itself.

    And this is where mass surveillance becomes dangerously counterproductive. A functioning society depends on trust: trust between citizens, trust in institutions, and the assumption that most people around us are not our enemies. Terrorism attacks exactly that trust.

    Mass surveillance does, too.

    It tells everyone that everyone is potentially suspicious. It normalizes observation, suspicion and self-censorship. In trying to make society more resilient against individual terrorists, we risk weakening the very social cohesion that makes a society resilient in the first place.

    The irony of Flight 1073 is therefore hard to miss.

    We have built extraordinarily powerful machinery for watching millions of ordinary people, while apparently failing at the much more mundane task of asking why a pilot previously considered an extremism risk was sitting in the cockpit of an airliner bound for Israel.

    Surveillance considered harmful. Not merely because it invades privacy. But because it can fail even at the trivial things while quietly weakening the society it was supposed to protect.

    F 1 Reply Last reply
    1
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    • masek@infosec.exchangeM masek@infosec.exchange

      Surveillance Considered Harmful

      There is an interesting detail emerging from the attempted terrorist attack on Flydubai Flight 1073.

      According to current reports, the co-pilot had already been barred from flying by Oman Air because of concerns about extremist views. Yet somehow he ended up flying for Flydubai. And somehow an Omani citizen, from a country whose pilots are not allowed to fly into Israel, ended up in the cockpit of a flight to Tel Aviv (Source: https://apnews.com/article/cf64a228799e6e788e834cac2a489ab2).

      This happened in a region containing some of the most heavily surveilled societies on the planet. Saudi Arabia, where the aircraft eventually landed, is a particularly extreme example: internet activity, social media and private communications are subject to extensive state surveillance (Source: https://freedomhouse.org/country/saudi-arabia/freedom-net/2025). Other Gulf states are not far behind in the scale and reach of their surveillance.

      And yet here we are. This points to a more fundamental problem with surveillance as a weapon against terrorism.

      What does a terrorist actually want?

      Physical destruction is only the means. The real target is psychological: fear, distrust, disruption and ultimately the fragmentation of society. A terrorist cannot destroy a society through physical violence alone. But it may be sufficient to make that society afraid enough to start damaging itself.

      And this is where mass surveillance becomes dangerously counterproductive. A functioning society depends on trust: trust between citizens, trust in institutions, and the assumption that most people around us are not our enemies. Terrorism attacks exactly that trust.

      Mass surveillance does, too.

      It tells everyone that everyone is potentially suspicious. It normalizes observation, suspicion and self-censorship. In trying to make society more resilient against individual terrorists, we risk weakening the very social cohesion that makes a society resilient in the first place.

      The irony of Flight 1073 is therefore hard to miss.

      We have built extraordinarily powerful machinery for watching millions of ordinary people, while apparently failing at the much more mundane task of asking why a pilot previously considered an extremism risk was sitting in the cockpit of an airliner bound for Israel.

      Surveillance considered harmful. Not merely because it invades privacy. But because it can fail even at the trivial things while quietly weakening the society it was supposed to protect.

      F This user is from outside of this forum
      F This user is from outside of this forum
      farseen@fedi.nptr.xyz
      wrote sidst redigeret af
      #2

      @masek yeah none of it is adding up. I have a feeling this was staged.

      masek@infosec.exchangeM 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • F farseen@fedi.nptr.xyz

        @masek yeah none of it is adding up. I have a feeling this was staged.

        masek@infosec.exchangeM This user is from outside of this forum
        masek@infosec.exchangeM This user is from outside of this forum
        masek@infosec.exchange
        wrote sidst redigeret af
        #3

        @farseen I see no real indications for a staged incident. The competence level I have perceived in the surveillance industry failed to impress me.

        F 1 Reply Last reply
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        • masek@infosec.exchangeM masek@infosec.exchange

          @farseen I see no real indications for a staged incident. The competence level I have perceived in the surveillance industry failed to impress me.

          F This user is from outside of this forum
          F This user is from outside of this forum
          farseen@fedi.nptr.xyz
          wrote sidst redigeret af
          #4

          @masek what I can't believe is that they can track down Ayatollah of Iran, or Jamal Khashoggi, but they let a person with obvious extremist tendencies to fly a plane to/from Israel. Imagine how many layers of vetting they must do for a pilot flying to/from Israel, given delicate of a situation they're in.

          I can't imagine that they don't have a multi-layer vetting process. And I can't imagine someone with such obvious signs of extremist tendencies slipped through that process. So the only other explanation is that, it was staged. They have the motive and means for staging this.

          masek@infosec.exchangeM cstross@wandering.shopC 2 Replies Last reply
          0
          • F farseen@fedi.nptr.xyz

            @masek what I can't believe is that they can track down Ayatollah of Iran, or Jamal Khashoggi, but they let a person with obvious extremist tendencies to fly a plane to/from Israel. Imagine how many layers of vetting they must do for a pilot flying to/from Israel, given delicate of a situation they're in.

            I can't imagine that they don't have a multi-layer vetting process. And I can't imagine someone with such obvious signs of extremist tendencies slipped through that process. So the only other explanation is that, it was staged. They have the motive and means for staging this.

            masek@infosec.exchangeM This user is from outside of this forum
            masek@infosec.exchangeM This user is from outside of this forum
            masek@infosec.exchange
            wrote sidst redigeret af
            #5

            @farseen I work in IT Security. I often see fantastic solutions combined with failures at the most basic level.

            Surveillance works similarly. Catching the enemy head of state give karma and promotions. That gets a lot of attention.

            But when looking at the pilot: /operator clicks on next. "If he were dangerous, he wouldn't be a pilot."

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            • F farseen@fedi.nptr.xyz

              @masek what I can't believe is that they can track down Ayatollah of Iran, or Jamal Khashoggi, but they let a person with obvious extremist tendencies to fly a plane to/from Israel. Imagine how many layers of vetting they must do for a pilot flying to/from Israel, given delicate of a situation they're in.

              I can't imagine that they don't have a multi-layer vetting process. And I can't imagine someone with such obvious signs of extremist tendencies slipped through that process. So the only other explanation is that, it was staged. They have the motive and means for staging this.

              cstross@wandering.shopC This user is from outside of this forum
              cstross@wandering.shopC This user is from outside of this forum
              cstross@wandering.shop
              wrote sidst redigeret af
              #6

              @farseen @masek What you've missed is that because it's a mass process, the vetting is carried out *as cheaply as possible*, mechanised if possible and operated by minimum wage drones. So there are holes in the process, and sometimes the holes line up—the Swiss Cheese model of accident causation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model

              We see the one bampot who gets into a cockpit, we don't see the dozen others who were silently blocked and didn't set any alarm bells ringing because they just didn't get a job.

              masek@infosec.exchangeM 1 Reply Last reply
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              • cstross@wandering.shopC cstross@wandering.shop

                @farseen @masek What you've missed is that because it's a mass process, the vetting is carried out *as cheaply as possible*, mechanised if possible and operated by minimum wage drones. So there are holes in the process, and sometimes the holes line up—the Swiss Cheese model of accident causation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model

                We see the one bampot who gets into a cockpit, we don't see the dozen others who were silently blocked and didn't set any alarm bells ringing because they just didn't get a job.

                masek@infosec.exchangeM This user is from outside of this forum
                masek@infosec.exchangeM This user is from outside of this forum
                masek@infosec.exchange
                wrote sidst redigeret af
                #7

                @cstross There is another effect at work: pervasive surveillance also reduces individual attention of responsible personnel because "someone else would catch him surely".

                @farseen

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                • jwcph@helvede.netJ jwcph@helvede.net shared this topic
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