What's the most common complaint I've heard about Linux?
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What's the most common complaint I've heard about Linux?Not the installation process.
Not finding a distro.
Not getting programs to work.
Not troubleshooting.
Not hardware compatibility.The most common complaint about Linux I've seen is this:
For a normal computer user, asking for help is just about impossible.They ask a simple question and:
People respond "Did you Google it?"
People respond "RTFM"
People get mad??? at them for making an easy mistake.We can't expect people to know to, or even know how to deal with any of that stuff.
Search engines these days are awful, manuals are hard to read for most people (especially stuff like ArchWiki), and normal people make mistakes we think are easily avoidable.
The solution to making Linux more popular is not ruthless promotion. The solution is to actually help the people who are trying to use it.
@Linux_in_a_Bit I think this is called verbal abuse and Linux has a problem with bad management - "a fish starts stinking from the head".
RTFM means Read The Fucking Manual, which is a triple verbal abuse:
1) Ordering, which is verbal abuse (older version of Wikipedia: Verbal abuse)
2) The word "fucking", which is a curse word
3) Abusive anger. The phrase obviously conveys anger. Anger is an emotion which belongs to a situation where someone behaves unfair. But the user asking for help does not behave unfair.Also another problem is that Linux is, in my experience, simply unreliable. When I boot up my computer, sometimes:
1) X doesn't come up, stays in text mode
2) X comes up with the screen at wrong smaller resolution and the picture is in one corner of the screen
3) Mouse doesn't work
4) Keyboard doesn't work
5) Keyboard has wrong repetition rate
6) When inserting a USB peripheral, USB hard disk disconnects and the system crashes
7) Manpages are missing important information
Fails to update between major versions with guarantee of functionality
9) System freezes to a grinding halt instead of managing the RAM resource when RAM demand from programs exceeds RAM size
10) Sound doesn't workAlso I would say 80% of solutions from Google don't work and 40% of them don't work and screw up your system and don't contain information how to reverse the changes after you did them and realized they don't work.
Asking "Have you tried Google?" is like a car mechanic asking a customer "have you tried unauthorized, possibly irreversibly damaging tampering with your engine according to the advice of a random, likely incompetent, bystander?"
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@Linux_in_a_Bit @CedC 95% means you might break your system after being curious or frustrated 20 times. you need to be really boring to make it far in these conditions
@malte @Linux_in_a_Bit I might have grown boring with age, but I do seldom have problem to fix and it just works.
I got started on typst this way very fast as well.
Sure it does not work 100% of the time but the few cases it does not we can ask experts and provide them interesting cases.
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What's the most common complaint I've heard about Linux?
Not the installation process.
Not finding a distro.
Not getting programs to work.
Not troubleshooting.
Not hardware compatibility.The most common complaint about Linux I've seen is this:
For a normal computer user, asking for help is just about impossible.They ask a simple question and:
People respond "Did you Google it?"
People respond "RTFM"
People get mad??? at them for making an easy mistake.We can't expect people to know to, or even know how to deal with any of that stuff.
Search engines these days are awful, manuals are hard to read for most people (especially stuff like ArchWiki), and normal people make mistakes we think are easily avoidable.
The solution to making Linux more popular is not ruthless promotion. The solution is to actually help the people who are trying to use it.
@Linux_in_a_Bit probably offering a rare counter prespective here. I'm a total noob and just didn't want to throw away my totally fine Windows 10 laptop. Installed Ubuntu and everything that could go wrong probably did go wrong. But when I asked here for help, I got utterly flooded in kind replies and helpful advice from the Linux community. I might not have understood a lot of it, but nobody was rude or terrible about it.
Sadly, it wasn't a problem that could be solved remote via toots, but someone here gave me a link to a site and I found a local group of students at the university. I went to one of their meetings and got help from a lovely young man
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What's the most common complaint I've heard about Linux?
Not the installation process.
Not finding a distro.
Not getting programs to work.
Not troubleshooting.
Not hardware compatibility.The most common complaint about Linux I've seen is this:
For a normal computer user, asking for help is just about impossible.They ask a simple question and:
People respond "Did you Google it?"
People respond "RTFM"
People get mad??? at them for making an easy mistake.We can't expect people to know to, or even know how to deal with any of that stuff.
Search engines these days are awful, manuals are hard to read for most people (especially stuff like ArchWiki), and normal people make mistakes we think are easily avoidable.
The solution to making Linux more popular is not ruthless promotion. The solution is to actually help the people who are trying to use it.
Yeah honestly, this.
The most hostile user base of all is Macs, Apple people truly hate each other. Issues are betrayal of the cult leader.
Then comes Linux, though it HAS improved a bit. You don't get "Just recompile your kernel!" to every single question about why your fucking wifi won't stay up or or your screensaver won't lock.
Then windows. The most shithouse OS on the planet actually has the most friendly help base, though it is often completely useless!
-> World <-
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What's the most common complaint I've heard about Linux?
Not the installation process.
Not finding a distro.
Not getting programs to work.
Not troubleshooting.
Not hardware compatibility.The most common complaint about Linux I've seen is this:
For a normal computer user, asking for help is just about impossible.They ask a simple question and:
People respond "Did you Google it?"
People respond "RTFM"
People get mad??? at them for making an easy mistake.We can't expect people to know to, or even know how to deal with any of that stuff.
Search engines these days are awful, manuals are hard to read for most people (especially stuff like ArchWiki), and normal people make mistakes we think are easily avoidable.
The solution to making Linux more popular is not ruthless promotion. The solution is to actually help the people who are trying to use it.
It's also ableism. Ten years ago I could have RTFM but now as a person with cognitive issues it's not always that easy, which is literally why i've held off on installing it
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Yeah honestly, this.
The most hostile user base of all is Macs, Apple people truly hate each other. Issues are betrayal of the cult leader.
Then comes Linux, though it HAS improved a bit. You don't get "Just recompile your kernel!" to every single question about why your fucking wifi won't stay up or or your screensaver won't lock.
Then windows. The most shithouse OS on the planet actually has the most friendly help base, though it is often completely useless!
-> World <-
@megatronicthronbanks @Linux_in_a_Bit Misery loves company
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What's the most common complaint I've heard about Linux?
Not the installation process.
Not finding a distro.
Not getting programs to work.
Not troubleshooting.
Not hardware compatibility.The most common complaint about Linux I've seen is this:
For a normal computer user, asking for help is just about impossible.They ask a simple question and:
People respond "Did you Google it?"
People respond "RTFM"
People get mad??? at them for making an easy mistake.We can't expect people to know to, or even know how to deal with any of that stuff.
Search engines these days are awful, manuals are hard to read for most people (especially stuff like ArchWiki), and normal people make mistakes we think are easily avoidable.
The solution to making Linux more popular is not ruthless promotion. The solution is to actually help the people who are trying to use it.
@Linux_in_a_Bit This. People like to waltz around all proud "I'm from the 'RTFM' days, kids these days, grumble grumble" and I'm thinking to myself... the problem ain't the kids...
"I'm tired of answering all these basic (author's note: not as basic as they think) questions. They can just find the answers themselves!" like, okay, then stop complaining on their questions on forums if you're so tired of it.
Or my personal favorite: being a seasoned linux user and needing a quick reminder on how to do something.
First search engine hit is a forum post of someone telling someone else to RTFM. Thanks for wasting mine and everyone's time. -
@Slacker why is that annoying?
@malte @Slacker because you don't buy a car to tweak the engine until you know how the car works first. Then you learn about the engine. Then you tweak it.
Many 'noobs' are mad there isn't a bolt-on upgrade to rice it. i.e. a double-click method and that it takes some learning.
At least, this is the experience I've had, and so I just don't bother helping anymore.
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@Linux_in_a_Bit It might sound simple and I am aware people often volunteer but not getting a reply after hours of waiting is even for me as a nerd very frustrating. At least after a while have someone say "sorry it seems we can't help you either. Maybe you can leave a ticket on our tracker/mailinglist" or something along those lines. That often would have made me feel better than the feeling of being ignored or worse feeling I asked something so stupid nobody wants to talk to me.
@mtrnord @Linux_in_a_Bit as frustrating as that is, it helps to remember people that do help are global and probably not in your time zone.
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@malte @Slacker because you don't buy a car to tweak the engine until you know how the car works first. Then you learn about the engine. Then you tweak it.
Many 'noobs' are mad there isn't a bolt-on upgrade to rice it. i.e. a double-click method and that it takes some learning.
At least, this is the experience I've had, and so I just don't bother helping anymore.
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What's the most common complaint I've heard about Linux?
Not the installation process.
Not finding a distro.
Not getting programs to work.
Not troubleshooting.
Not hardware compatibility.The most common complaint about Linux I've seen is this:
For a normal computer user, asking for help is just about impossible.They ask a simple question and:
People respond "Did you Google it?"
People respond "RTFM"
People get mad??? at them for making an easy mistake.We can't expect people to know to, or even know how to deal with any of that stuff.
Search engines these days are awful, manuals are hard to read for most people (especially stuff like ArchWiki), and normal people make mistakes we think are easily avoidable.
The solution to making Linux more popular is not ruthless promotion. The solution is to actually help the people who are trying to use it.
Seconded. It's been said that Apple hates computers but loves users, and that Linux hates users but loves computers. There's room for everyone at the console. Death to the elitist penguin.
-
What's the most common complaint I've heard about Linux?
Not the installation process.
Not finding a distro.
Not getting programs to work.
Not troubleshooting.
Not hardware compatibility.The most common complaint about Linux I've seen is this:
For a normal computer user, asking for help is just about impossible.They ask a simple question and:
People respond "Did you Google it?"
People respond "RTFM"
People get mad??? at them for making an easy mistake.We can't expect people to know to, or even know how to deal with any of that stuff.
Search engines these days are awful, manuals are hard to read for most people (especially stuff like ArchWiki), and normal people make mistakes we think are easily avoidable.
The solution to making Linux more popular is not ruthless promotion. The solution is to actually help the people who are trying to use it.
@Linux_in_a_Bit Another common thing I've encountered is feeling like people aren't really listening to you or aren't willing to take the time to understand the situation before they start throwing stuff at you.
This is sometimes how people recommend Linux itself, as a solution to a problem in a situation where switching to Linux would either be unfeasible or where that'd cause a lot more headache than simply finding a workaround for now and look into switching to linux at a later date when you're not actively trying to solve a problem.
A lot of these issues, I feel like, come from an inability a lot of people have to admit they don't know something. That's why they feel the need to make it out like you're the one wrong for asking the question, or try and steer them towards something you do have an expertise in even if that thing isn't actually helpful in the situation.
No reasonable person is gonna think less if you just admit you don't know. "I don't know, but I'll try looking into it" is a lot better than bullshitting some answer or deflecting the question. And when it comes to computers in particular, I'm pretty convinced there are only two kinds of people: people who don't know what they are doing at least half the time and people who are lying.
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@Linux_in_a_Bit not true anymore.
With AI integrated in most search engine, you often get the right response from it.
One of the few benefits of AI is that it can basically customise the documentation to make it sensible to you. It becomes a kind of live documentation.A simple how to fix … on [distro name] works 95% of the time in my experience.
@CedC @Linux_in_a_Bit Or… consider this: it also often hallucinates complete bullshit.
No, LLMs are not a solution. -
@Linux_in_a_Bit Offer to pay for it maybe vOv
I hear you. I've been frustrated too. But you're asking people to share expertise for free when they honestly have already shared a whole crap ton of it.
Maybe people who can't understand that should stick to the proprietary platforms who are willing to monetize your soul as collateral instead.
@crazyeddie @Linux_in_a_Bit And TBF, a good many people still do it. It may not be the typical online experience and there's surely room to improve, but I wouldn't even know where to find a seasoned Windows or Mac expert who'll sit down with you in person and show you how to fix your IT problems for free, something that is often advertised by Linux user groups.
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What's the most common complaint I've heard about Linux?
Not the installation process.
Not finding a distro.
Not getting programs to work.
Not troubleshooting.
Not hardware compatibility.The most common complaint about Linux I've seen is this:
For a normal computer user, asking for help is just about impossible.They ask a simple question and:
People respond "Did you Google it?"
People respond "RTFM"
People get mad??? at them for making an easy mistake.We can't expect people to know to, or even know how to deal with any of that stuff.
Search engines these days are awful, manuals are hard to read for most people (especially stuff like ArchWiki), and normal people make mistakes we think are easily avoidable.
The solution to making Linux more popular is not ruthless promotion. The solution is to actually help the people who are trying to use it.
@Linux_in_a_Bit half the replies to this post
-
What's the most common complaint I've heard about Linux?
Not the installation process.
Not finding a distro.
Not getting programs to work.
Not troubleshooting.
Not hardware compatibility.The most common complaint about Linux I've seen is this:
For a normal computer user, asking for help is just about impossible.They ask a simple question and:
People respond "Did you Google it?"
People respond "RTFM"
People get mad??? at them for making an easy mistake.We can't expect people to know to, or even know how to deal with any of that stuff.
Search engines these days are awful, manuals are hard to read for most people (especially stuff like ArchWiki), and normal people make mistakes we think are easily avoidable.
The solution to making Linux more popular is not ruthless promotion. The solution is to actually help the people who are trying to use it.
@Linux_in_a_Bit Asking for help with Windows doesn't really work much better. I think the problem is people in general, not Linux people specifically.
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What's the most common complaint I've heard about Linux?
Not the installation process.
Not finding a distro.
Not getting programs to work.
Not troubleshooting.
Not hardware compatibility.The most common complaint about Linux I've seen is this:
For a normal computer user, asking for help is just about impossible.They ask a simple question and:
People respond "Did you Google it?"
People respond "RTFM"
People get mad??? at them for making an easy mistake.We can't expect people to know to, or even know how to deal with any of that stuff.
Search engines these days are awful, manuals are hard to read for most people (especially stuff like ArchWiki), and normal people make mistakes we think are easily avoidable.
The solution to making Linux more popular is not ruthless promotion. The solution is to actually help the people who are trying to use it.
@Linux_in_a_Bit One thing that I guess hasn't changed much in 20 years....
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What's the most common complaint I've heard about Linux?
Not the installation process.
Not finding a distro.
Not getting programs to work.
Not troubleshooting.
Not hardware compatibility.The most common complaint about Linux I've seen is this:
For a normal computer user, asking for help is just about impossible.They ask a simple question and:
People respond "Did you Google it?"
People respond "RTFM"
People get mad??? at them for making an easy mistake.We can't expect people to know to, or even know how to deal with any of that stuff.
Search engines these days are awful, manuals are hard to read for most people (especially stuff like ArchWiki), and normal people make mistakes we think are easily avoidable.
The solution to making Linux more popular is not ruthless promotion. The solution is to actually help the people who are trying to use it.
@Linux_in_a_Bit i joined a forum I had to because i'm an idiot. My complaint about Linux is that my computer looks exactly the same. I have mint it's terribly boring. Lol
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What's the most common complaint I've heard about Linux?
Not the installation process.
Not finding a distro.
Not getting programs to work.
Not troubleshooting.
Not hardware compatibility.The most common complaint about Linux I've seen is this:
For a normal computer user, asking for help is just about impossible.They ask a simple question and:
People respond "Did you Google it?"
People respond "RTFM"
People get mad??? at them for making an easy mistake.We can't expect people to know to, or even know how to deal with any of that stuff.
Search engines these days are awful, manuals are hard to read for most people (especially stuff like ArchWiki), and normal people make mistakes we think are easily avoidable.
The solution to making Linux more popular is not ruthless promotion. The solution is to actually help the people who are trying to use it.
@Linux_in_a_Bit The replies to this post about Linux for the normal computer user are very on-brand.
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@CedC @Linux_in_a_Bit Or… consider this: it also often hallucinates complete bullshit.
No, LLMs are not a solution.@Razemix @Linux_in_a_Bit yes it does allucinate, not its not «often», and most of the time it does it is because the answer is not documented.
And if it does... Well it will simply not work.
LLM is a (biais) tool with a _few_ use cases; To me documentation is one of them.
