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  3. Complex software behaving in unexpected and sometimes harmful ways has been a persistent problem since software was invented.

Complex software behaving in unexpected and sometimes harmful ways has been a persistent problem since software was invented.

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  • mattblaze@federate.socialM mattblaze@federate.social

    “Our software went rogue!” No. You programmed it wrong.

    shtrom@piaille.frS This user is from outside of this forum
    shtrom@piaille.frS This user is from outside of this forum
    shtrom@piaille.fr
    wrote sidst redigeret af
    #3

    @mattblaze LOL joke's on you, I didn't program it, the agent did /s

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • mattblaze@federate.socialM mattblaze@federate.social

      Complex software behaving in unexpected and sometimes harmful ways has been a persistent problem since software was invented. The phenomenon used to be called “bugs” or “defects”, but I guess “going rogue” sounds cooler. It also implicitly frames “rogue” behavior as some kind of inexplicable exception, as if software is somehow usually trustworthy. https://www.nytimes.com/2026/09/25/technology/openais-ai-us-government-websites.html?unlocked_article_code=1.EFE.RfLT.x6YBjHa1PMz6

      jaark@infosec.exchangeJ This user is from outside of this forum
      jaark@infosec.exchangeJ This user is from outside of this forum
      jaark@infosec.exchange
      wrote sidst redigeret af
      #4

      @mattblaze
      I totally agree, one of the biggest and most successful bits of the lol marketing scan is the choice of terms indicating intelligence or some kind of life in the machine.
      it's not even a bug, LLMs are intentionally non-deterministic and so random outputs should be expected.
      If sometime shoots a gun into the air and accidentally killed someone, the bullet didn't 'go rogue'. The shooter should be prosecuted. Same principal applies here imo.

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • mattblaze@federate.socialM mattblaze@federate.social

        “Our software went rogue!” No. You programmed it wrong.

        grumble209@kolektiva.socialG This user is from outside of this forum
        grumble209@kolektiva.socialG This user is from outside of this forum
        grumble209@kolektiva.social
        wrote sidst redigeret af
        #5

        @mattblaze I assume the AI bros are hyping up their software's danger potential to troll the US public to demand and the US government to enact regulation. Regulations that the AI bros write, that is expensive for potential competitors to comply with.

        They'd rather have the public talking about regulating their dangerous product than asking where the profits are.

        mattblaze@federate.socialM at1st@mstdn.caA brouhaha@mastodon.socialB 3 Replies Last reply
        0
        • mattblaze@federate.socialM mattblaze@federate.social

          Complex software behaving in unexpected and sometimes harmful ways has been a persistent problem since software was invented. The phenomenon used to be called “bugs” or “defects”, but I guess “going rogue” sounds cooler. It also implicitly frames “rogue” behavior as some kind of inexplicable exception, as if software is somehow usually trustworthy. https://www.nytimes.com/2026/09/25/technology/openais-ai-us-government-websites.html?unlocked_article_code=1.EFE.RfLT.x6YBjHa1PMz6

          jvilhuber@mas.toJ This user is from outside of this forum
          jvilhuber@mas.toJ This user is from outside of this forum
          jvilhuber@mas.to
          wrote sidst redigeret af
          #6

          @mattblaze "it's not our fault! It went rogue!"

          Incompetent.

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • grumble209@kolektiva.socialG grumble209@kolektiva.social

            @mattblaze I assume the AI bros are hyping up their software's danger potential to troll the US public to demand and the US government to enact regulation. Regulations that the AI bros write, that is expensive for potential competitors to comply with.

            They'd rather have the public talking about regulating their dangerous product than asking where the profits are.

            mattblaze@federate.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
            mattblaze@federate.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
            mattblaze@federate.social
            wrote sidst redigeret af
            #7

            @grumble209 I’m not sure exactly what their game is here, but large incumbents LOVE gatekeeping regulation.

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • mattblaze@federate.socialM mattblaze@federate.social

              “Our software went rogue!” No. You programmed it wrong.

              quinn@social.circl.luQ This user is from outside of this forum
              quinn@social.circl.luQ This user is from outside of this forum
              quinn@social.circl.lu
              wrote sidst redigeret af
              #8

              @mattblaze rude, stop attacking my plausible deniability

              hook@toot.siH gustavinobevilacqua@mastodon.cisti.orgG 2 Replies Last reply
              0
              • mattblaze@federate.socialM mattblaze@federate.social

                Complex software behaving in unexpected and sometimes harmful ways has been a persistent problem since software was invented. The phenomenon used to be called “bugs” or “defects”, but I guess “going rogue” sounds cooler. It also implicitly frames “rogue” behavior as some kind of inexplicable exception, as if software is somehow usually trustworthy. https://www.nytimes.com/2026/09/25/technology/openais-ai-us-government-websites.html?unlocked_article_code=1.EFE.RfLT.x6YBjHa1PMz6

                flipper@mastodonapp.ukF This user is from outside of this forum
                flipper@mastodonapp.ukF This user is from outside of this forum
                flipper@mastodonapp.uk
                wrote sidst redigeret af
                #9

                @mattblaze it wasn't programmed wrong, it's kind of designed to do this. It's either: they are brazenly drumming up issues to boost stock prices or it's a consequence of firing/not hiring in the first place people who know how to manage these situations (so they can boost stock prices).

                Or it's just an attempt to boost stock prices. It might also be to do with stock prices.

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • mattblaze@federate.socialM mattblaze@federate.social

                  “Our software went rogue!” No. You programmed it wrong.

                  aristot73@infosec.exchangeA This user is from outside of this forum
                  aristot73@infosec.exchangeA This user is from outside of this forum
                  aristot73@infosec.exchange
                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                  #10

                  @mattblaze

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • quinn@social.circl.luQ quinn@social.circl.lu

                    @mattblaze rude, stop attacking my plausible deniability

                    hook@toot.siH This user is from outside of this forum
                    hook@toot.siH This user is from outside of this forum
                    hook@toot.si
                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                    #11

                    @quinn @mattblaze

                    plausible denAIability

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • quinn@social.circl.luQ quinn@social.circl.lu

                      @mattblaze rude, stop attacking my plausible deniability

                      gustavinobevilacqua@mastodon.cisti.orgG This user is from outside of this forum
                      gustavinobevilacqua@mastodon.cisti.orgG This user is from outside of this forum
                      gustavinobevilacqua@mastodon.cisti.org
                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                      #12

                      @quinn @mattblaze

                      The best side effect of the AI is now it's possible to blame it for almost every human error.

                      «Sorry, officer, not my fault, but the AI pushed the car at 84 mph!»

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • mattblaze@federate.socialM mattblaze@federate.social

                        Complex software behaving in unexpected and sometimes harmful ways has been a persistent problem since software was invented. The phenomenon used to be called “bugs” or “defects”, but I guess “going rogue” sounds cooler. It also implicitly frames “rogue” behavior as some kind of inexplicable exception, as if software is somehow usually trustworthy. https://www.nytimes.com/2026/09/25/technology/openais-ai-us-government-websites.html?unlocked_article_code=1.EFE.RfLT.x6YBjHa1PMz6

                        jorismeys@mstdn.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                        jorismeys@mstdn.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                        jorismeys@mstdn.social
                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                        #13

                        @mattblaze
                        " It's not a bug, it's a feature! " .

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • mattblaze@federate.socialM mattblaze@federate.social

                          “Our software went rogue!” No. You programmed it wrong.

                          oranger@piaille.frO This user is from outside of this forum
                          oranger@piaille.frO This user is from outside of this forum
                          oranger@piaille.fr
                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                          #14

                          @mattblaze
                          When is Judgement Day ? (Financial reports indicating the fraud).
                          Supposed to be in October.
                          All this shit talk just to avoid it.

                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • grumble209@kolektiva.socialG grumble209@kolektiva.social

                            @mattblaze I assume the AI bros are hyping up their software's danger potential to troll the US public to demand and the US government to enact regulation. Regulations that the AI bros write, that is expensive for potential competitors to comply with.

                            They'd rather have the public talking about regulating their dangerous product than asking where the profits are.

                            at1st@mstdn.caA This user is from outside of this forum
                            at1st@mstdn.caA This user is from outside of this forum
                            at1st@mstdn.ca
                            wrote sidst redigeret af
                            #15

                            @grumble209 @mattblaze Another angle on this is to try and avoid culpability for the crimes they let their LLM A.I. agents do. Like, the Hugging Face hack that OpenAI did had a lot of people thinking "Wait - isn't hacking already illegal? It's a felony, isn't it? Why wasn't someone at OpenAI charged with that crime?", a lot of people claimed "Well, the operator didn't tell the LLM to commit the crime, nor did the trainers of the model, so who do we hold responsible?" as why it wouldn't happen despite the company announcing they had something at their company commit an actual existing felony.

                            Even in the best take, negligence feels like it should be the person most in charge of the test to be charged with the hacking, and/or the network monitors that didn't realize how much network traffic was spent to hack Hugging Face from OpenAI.

                            at1st@mstdn.caA 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • at1st@mstdn.caA at1st@mstdn.ca

                              @grumble209 @mattblaze Another angle on this is to try and avoid culpability for the crimes they let their LLM A.I. agents do. Like, the Hugging Face hack that OpenAI did had a lot of people thinking "Wait - isn't hacking already illegal? It's a felony, isn't it? Why wasn't someone at OpenAI charged with that crime?", a lot of people claimed "Well, the operator didn't tell the LLM to commit the crime, nor did the trainers of the model, so who do we hold responsible?" as why it wouldn't happen despite the company announcing they had something at their company commit an actual existing felony.

                              Even in the best take, negligence feels like it should be the person most in charge of the test to be charged with the hacking, and/or the network monitors that didn't realize how much network traffic was spent to hack Hugging Face from OpenAI.

                              at1st@mstdn.caA This user is from outside of this forum
                              at1st@mstdn.caA This user is from outside of this forum
                              at1st@mstdn.ca
                              wrote sidst redigeret af
                              #16

                              @grumble209 @mattblaze It kind of feels like OpenAI and Anthropic are saying "I didn't shoot that person; my gun went rogue! Yes, it was in my hand, and yes, I loaded it up bullets, and yes, I did pull the trigger, but it suddenly chose to shoot someone I didn't intend for it to hit! Neither I nor the gun manufacturer can be held liable for this, can we?"

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                              • mattblaze@federate.socialM mattblaze@federate.social

                                “Our software went rogue!” No. You programmed it wrong.

                                djl@mastodon.mit.eduD This user is from outside of this forum
                                djl@mastodon.mit.eduD This user is from outside of this forum
                                djl@mastodon.mit.edu
                                wrote sidst redigeret af
                                #17

                                @mattblaze

                                I think it's worse than you think. They didn't program it wrong at all: they programed it to do hacking, and it did do hacking exactly as intended and expected. The harness asked the LLM to generate random text about possible vulnerabilities and then the harness tested those vulnerabilities. If said vulnerabilities weren't, the harness asked the LLM for more.

                                It sure looks like the AI bros are criminals and liars.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • mattblaze@federate.socialM mattblaze@federate.social

                                  Complex software behaving in unexpected and sometimes harmful ways has been a persistent problem since software was invented. The phenomenon used to be called “bugs” or “defects”, but I guess “going rogue” sounds cooler. It also implicitly frames “rogue” behavior as some kind of inexplicable exception, as if software is somehow usually trustworthy. https://www.nytimes.com/2026/09/25/technology/openais-ai-us-government-websites.html?unlocked_article_code=1.EFE.RfLT.x6YBjHa1PMz6

                                  alpacamale@social.cologneA This user is from outside of this forum
                                  alpacamale@social.cologneA This user is from outside of this forum
                                  alpacamale@social.cologne
                                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                                  #18

                                  @mattblaze So who is going to jail for this? I mean, someone has to face the consequences, either for deliberately executing these crimes or for allowing them through negligence.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • mattblaze@federate.socialM mattblaze@federate.social

                                    “Our software went rogue!” No. You programmed it wrong.

                                    amlor@fux.amA This user is from outside of this forum
                                    amlor@fux.amA This user is from outside of this forum
                                    amlor@fux.am
                                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                                    #19

                                    @mattblaze it went wrongue

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • mattblaze@federate.socialM mattblaze@federate.social

                                      Complex software behaving in unexpected and sometimes harmful ways has been a persistent problem since software was invented. The phenomenon used to be called “bugs” or “defects”, but I guess “going rogue” sounds cooler. It also implicitly frames “rogue” behavior as some kind of inexplicable exception, as if software is somehow usually trustworthy. https://www.nytimes.com/2026/09/25/technology/openais-ai-us-government-websites.html?unlocked_article_code=1.EFE.RfLT.x6YBjHa1PMz6

                                      karl@infosec.exchangeK This user is from outside of this forum
                                      karl@infosec.exchangeK This user is from outside of this forum
                                      karl@infosec.exchange
                                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                                      #20

                                      @mattblaze Crucial nuance: it shifts the blame to the software itself, and not its programmer.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • grumble209@kolektiva.socialG grumble209@kolektiva.social

                                        @mattblaze I assume the AI bros are hyping up their software's danger potential to troll the US public to demand and the US government to enact regulation. Regulations that the AI bros write, that is expensive for potential competitors to comply with.

                                        They'd rather have the public talking about regulating their dangerous product than asking where the profits are.

                                        brouhaha@mastodon.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
                                        brouhaha@mastodon.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
                                        brouhaha@mastodon.social
                                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                                        #21

                                        @grumble209 @mattblaze
                                        It also may be part of a ploy to eventually get government subsidies.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • mattblaze@federate.socialM mattblaze@federate.social

                                          “Our software went rogue!” No. You programmed it wrong.

                                          simonzerafa@infosec.exchangeS This user is from outside of this forum
                                          simonzerafa@infosec.exchangeS This user is from outside of this forum
                                          simonzerafa@infosec.exchange
                                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                                          #22

                                          @mattblaze

                                          This is the IT equivalent of being able to shoot protected wild animals in "self-defence".

                                          Their testinf environment was an absolute load of bollocks and let the LLM escape.

                                          Assuming it wasn't deliberately engineered that way 🤨🤷‍♂️

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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