@anderslund

Agreed.

@anderslund

Agreed. I'd love to start with Slack, but Matrix and other alternatives aren't usable for people whose mission is outside of tech (and even many whose mission IS tech oriented).

@anderslund

I think you're underestimating the friction many of your suggested alternatives add to non-technical, non-privacy-minded folks. Conving my union to move off of Slack has failed and will continue to fail until the alternatives become as usable.

Yes, people CAN use alternatives, but the vast majority won't until they get much better.

@g

Yes, exactly. Try using Matrix in a 100+ union made up of mostly non technologists. The added friction makes alternatives a non starter.

@benjaoming

Do you have experience with unions? The ones I know (my wife's and the 3 unions I have been a member of) most definitely don't have the resources required.

@bjb @taylorlorenz

Not to mention the non-trivial amount of work required. With Slack, you can register and account and host hundreds of people in 5 minutes. None of the Slack alternatives are that easy.

@anderslund

You're talking like a privacy-minded technologist. We are a minority. For people who lack tech skills, almost all of the alternatives are unusable to the average person.

@Epic_Null

My biggest concern with my union is its deep reliance on Slack, seconded by Zoom. Yes, there are Slack alternatives, but all of them require a large amount of admin work from someone with a fair amount of experience. They also lack much of the usability features of Slack. (Zoom alternatives are also not suitable for a union our size.) I posted a query a few months ago seeking Slack alternatives. I got a lot of suggestions and I investigated each one. NONE of them were suitable, given our limited resources.

@davew @markhurst

Agreed. But no one seems to be doing that sucessfully, with maybe the exception of Signal and maybe Mastodon. Yes, others are trying but the usability is often lacking and the security is untested.

Even people with the most to lose continue to support and rely heavily on:

-- Google
-- Slack
-- Meta
-- Microsoft
-- Apple
-- Too many others to list

These orgs cozy up to authoritarianism. They terminate your account for any reason or no reaso at all. They shove AI down your throat.

And yet, my workplace, union, and so many of the orgs I value and need keep using them and have no plans to ween themselves off. Yes, I realize current dynamics make all of this inevitable.

So I'm left feeling hopeless and helpless, which is a terrible place to be.