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@firefoxwebdevs @heptapodEnthusiast @nuintari @davidgerard @zzt I'd actually like to have a discussion about what it would entail to convert features, ones which are not contributing to the rendering of web pages, into add-ons, regardless of how quickly it could be done.
It would be good to know more detail around what you mean when you say "we need the kill switch yesterday" compared to the about:config and preferences page options we have now? Is there more invasive AI we aren't aware of?
@firefoxwebdevs @heptapodEnthusiast @nuintari @davidgerard @zzt it seems weird that you think I'm going to play word games with you as if you don't have a hundred *written* responses to your poll saying that the kill switch is unnecessary if these were all add-ons.
@firefoxwebdevs @heptapodEnthusiast @nuintari @davidgerard @zzt and you've just done it to me by saying that a mention of "explicit install" throws the baby out with the bathwater.
You've called @davidgerard 's position "immutable" as if we're unable to have a serious, unified stance against a very clear overstep between a passive web browser and the encroachment of something which is not that.
@firefoxwebdevs @heptapodEnthusiast @nuintari @davidgerard @zzt if there are reasons this cannot be an add-on, then THAT is the discussion you should be having with the community. Because that is the barrier you have not addressed and it is what makes a kill switch so peculiar.
I don't appreciate your defensiveness, and false transparency posturing. You are prepared to ask for clarity from people asking softball questions, but you're ignoring the slew of "make it an add-on" suggestions
@firefoxwebdevs @heptapodEnthusiast @nuintari @davidgerard @zzt why would moving if "from its current place" and making it an add-on be "unshipping"?
Convert it to an add-on, pre-install it, because we're past the opt-in point by now, then we can uninstall it like any other add-on and you can all forget about a nonsense kill switch
@firefoxwebdevs @heptapodEnthusiast @nuintari @davidgerard @zzt who said unshipping?
@firefoxwebdevs @heptapodEnthusiast @nuintari @davidgerard @zzt the missing option which you are responding to is "Missing option, if shouldn't be in the browser code in the first place. It should be an add-on that the user has to explicitly install"
I've been following your responses because (correct me if I'm wrong) you have not addressed any of the "make them all add-ons" responses.
It has been repeated ad nauseam with good reason considering the opt-in/consent issue with AI features
@firefoxwebdevs @heptapodEnthusiast @nuintari @davidgerard @zzt you could save us all a lot of time by stating in the original post a list of *very* common responses to Firefox AI initiatives which are "never going to be actioned"
JESUS CHRIST
@firefoxwebdevs @heptapodEnthusiast @nuintari @davidgerard @zzt this response is, quite honestly, terrifying—and your removal of other vocal critics in the thread is evidence you are aware of this.
@firefoxwebdevs @mawhrin @zzt @yoasif @fmasy @Rycochet @davidgerard
Voting in that poll legitimises a kill switch as a viable solution. Hence the flood of responses from people who don't want to say "yes" or "no" about how a thing they don't want works.
@firefoxwebdevs @mdavis small clarification
@firefoxwebdevs introduced the concept of an "AI kill switch"
the "AI kill switch purists" you're talking about don't exist.
No serious person would think this is a good idea because it doesn't make sense. Evident by this "design" stumble at the start line
q1 - design one
q2 - see the post you responded to
donate to servo if you can
https://opencollective.com/servo
they have a roadmap that is dedicated to making an actual browser engine, not a collection of browser features on top of one
@liquor_american @zzt @pixel @firefoxwebdevs As the only remaining cross-platform browser that is not chromium, Mozilla deserves nothing but pressure to do better. Defending Mozilla about anything other than making Gecko better is giving them permission to eventually be just another chromium skin
@zzt @firefoxwebdevs now would be good, before that new CMO is breathing heavily over the shoulder
@zzt @firefoxwebdevs You'd never have to say "consent", "opt in", "opt out", or "kill switch" again if you put design energy into overcoming whatever (WHATEVER) barriers are preventing all of these things being add-ons.
@zzt @firefoxwebdevs please don't call it the "design" of the kill switch when you have to ask *us* what it should kill—as some kind of transparency/openness posturing.
@zzt @firefoxwebdevs Why would Mozilla translations be built into the browser but other developers have to make them as add-ons? Or will Mozilla accept PRs for third-party translators to be built into the Firefox browser?
@firefoxwebdevs it would be compelling if the future of Firefox was to be the fastest, most secure, most efficient browser engine with the best add-on ecosystem.
It would also be compelling to hear someone from Mozilla talk about their design effort to improve add-on adoption rather than forcing add-on-level-functionality into the core product
@firefoxwebdevs It would also be compelling if a team at Mozilla were dedicated to building the best browser translation add-on on the market, for all browsers. To promote the power of add-ons and, at the same time, the Mozilla brand.