@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven Yeah I went to skim Wikipedia to be more specific and realized that I invented the total interchangeability in my head. At least you can losslessly upgrade images, I'll take that over nothing.

@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven Google did the same thing with VP8/VP9 less successfully and AV1 more prolifically that it did with webps, but the difference is that a) it was going up against MPEG-LA rather than every Tom, Dick, and Harry file format that just happened to lie outside the organization, and b) Google still has to support MPEG-4 and HEVC and whatever the successor is called in Blink, whereas it just shut out all the competing image file formats because fuck you, not invented here, we own the internet so just try and stop us. Same methods, different results. AV1 is a still piece of shit codec even if I'm glad it exists.

@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven I had seen a conversation about it that convinced me that it should slot in next-to-transparently on any system or software that supported both, like we could eventually expect to have legacy jpegs and jpeg xls floating around with the same file extension and nobody would notice. I can't remember why I got that idea, maybe it's because it's a superset of the old format. Still, I've seen the benchmarks and I understand/at one point understood how the file formats fit together, and it's my personal horse in the file extension race.

@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven I didn't say I used Windows, I said there's two-hundred-and-thirty-thousand other people on the website at that snapshot in time and you have to convince ALL OF THEM.
And I do use Gentoo, absolutely.

@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven Like there's a world where I save every webp in its own little gulag folder and ask the slopalisk to pretty please write a script that detected things like alpha and animation and heuristically determine whether the webp that you posted should be converted into a jpeg, gif, png, or audio-less webm, and batch convert all the dogshit coming out of the internet pipe at once. That doesnt "solve" the "inconvenience," it just automates having to unfuck the internet, and it's still 100% my loss and 100% your gain.

@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven
>and you refuse to solve the inconvenience
What's there to solve? It's not like "oh maybe I should emerge -avq media-gfx/super-duper-webp-thumbnailer to get this working in Emanuele's funny torment nexus" and that makes the problem of Google imposing this file format on the internet while bullying out the competition from loading in Blink-adjacent web browsers from going away. "Solving" the "inconvenience" involves dropping nukes or Alphabet getting trust-busted. What do you want from me?

@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven
>That would be a problem.
Ostensibly, yes. Realistically, no. Every phone application is free software, even the iOS one. Moreover, it's hard to imagine them actually making an official application given the App Store's content requirements, not that e.g. Twitter can't get around them while hosting the same kinds of images, 4chan just has that reputation for itself. Chance works well but it's never leaving TestFlight and requires a song and dance to get the website loading.

@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven The front page right now says there's 231-THOUSAND current users, however they're measuring that. I'm sure a lot of people are using their phones these days, but nevertheless, it's not me that you have to convince to switch. But even if my system supports it, I'm still not going to use it.

@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven It's exclusively unofficial client apps, and anyone who isn't using one of the unofficial mobile apps is likely using a comprehensive userscript to supplement the website's functionality. There's a half-assed half-baked unfinished subdomain for a progressive web app that was intended for mobile users whose development got abandoned like ten years ago.

@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven Yeah, but like I said earlier in the thread, nobody (no end user) WANTS to use webp. It didn't thumbnail properly in Windows Explorer the last time I was dumb enough to save a webp on a Windows install, and Apple holds contempt for everyone outside of their organization so it certainly doesn't work right on macOS or iOS. It probably works fine on Android and half-works on $YOUR_FAVORITE_LIBERATED_TOOLKIT_FILEPICKER. Again, being really good for developers doesn't make it a slam dunk for the people being served the image, other than "look at this with your eyeballs and do nothing else with it ever."

@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven I can't remember if it was a malformed pdf or a malformed image, but something running on the server was an ancient, exploitable version, and someone uploaded a malformed file in order to get access to the website. I want to say it was an old imagemagick version that was generating thumbnails but I really can't remember without looking. The month-long downtime that followed was probably the devs scrambling to monkeypatch both yotsuba and all of the binaries it reaches out while operating. It's not like the webring imageboards that are all running infinity forks where everything's free software, 4chan's been running the same crusty old php codebase which was probably legacy code when moot stole it from 2chan.

@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven Come to think of it, of all the imageboards I've browsed (-booru style and -chan style,) I don't think any of the popular ones support either webps or avifs. I've only ever seen the usual suspects: jpeg, gif, png, webm, mp4, and I remember seeing flash files a long long time ago on sankakucomplex and maybe rule34, but who knows if those are still hosted. I was gonna say that webps being better compressed probably wouldn't make a huge dent in 4chan's image hosting given that the website is hosting like a terabyte of content at a time, but 4chan is transient, when a thread falls of the archive catalog it's gone, and so is its content. If boorus aren't hosting webps, where the purpose is long-term image storage and transfer, it's either a lack of willlingness to accept liability, or a total contempt for the format.

@argv_minus_one @lproven @chaekyung If I had the insider information to actually answer that, I'd be making more money than I am now, but I assume it's some combination of legacy PHP spaghetti code, being spooked after getting hacked over filetype shenanigans earlier in the year, and Hiro being a lazy piece of shit that just wants to hang out with his streaming buddies. A lot of users hold it in contempt but it's hard to say if everyone would change their opinions overnight if it were magically supported tomorrow, yet I suspect not.

@chaekyung @lproven
>or do you simply not realize how foolish and childish you are?
It's this, but there's also a zeitgeist of user contempt among developers right now. If AVIF or WEBP saves a lot of bandwidth, then you NEED to default to those to save bandwidth, because what the end user does with the image is totally irrelevant in the face of what the developer needs to do to deliver that image to the web browser. The fact that JPEG and GIF and PNG are battle-tested and universally supported doesn't matter, because I'm the developer and my needs come way before yours, and if you don't like it, why haven't you fucked off and died in a fire yet?
Many are doing this. Few are acknowledging it.

@lproven >the grownups are talking
No they're not. I had to scroll back four pages on your profile to find the first post you've made with more than 1 reply, retweet, or like. The lion's share of your posts have next to no interaction, and you don't repost anyone else's content, so it's not like you're jumping up and down saying YES, THAT MAN COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT BETTER about anything either.
Anyways, if you're not gonna block me and give me the scalp, and you don't want to have a conversation about how four lossy jpegs in a video container trenchcoat is a shitty file, I don't know what else to tell you other than I hope you've enjoyed the most conversation you've had on fedi all year.

@lproven You should NEVER, EVER, EVER act so immaturely on the internet that you allowed yourself to be clowned on by the guy who introduces himself as the biggest doorknob-licking freezing-temperature-IQ mongrel to have ever graced Satan's playground. PLEASE grow and improve as a person, I believe you're capable of it.
You can also give me the scalp if you don't want to do that, but that'd be REALLY EMBARRASSING for you.

@lproven >I don't like the websites you use and I think you should be immolated as immediately as possible.
VERY convincing argument to deepthroat Sundar's footlong cock. Got any other ones, or are we not mature enough to discuss the demerits of picture file extensions?

@lproven >AVIF and WebP are routinely half the size of a JPEG at the same quality.
Yeah but they're dogshit and I don't want them. Maybe I wanna save your 4MB hero image as a funny reaction image and post it on 4chan later. Now I gotta take your wow! so modern! bullshit, copy it into my clipboard, open GIMP, paste it, and save THAT abomination as a JPEG. Quadrillions, maybe even, quintillions of clock cycles wasted just to un-fuck your Google-schlong-worshiping web picture. I will NEVER, EVER stop being mad about this. Fucking asshole.