The teacher said "In English a double negative forms a positive.
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@lankohr @AlexanderVI @EF @rzeta0 @kibcol1049
"Repeat after me: 'an acre is the area of land whose length...' "@HighlandLawyer @AlexanderVI @EF @rzeta0 @kibcol1049 It's not against education, it's against black pedagogy.
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@rzeta0 @kibcol1049 apparently the double negative thing is a convention rather than a hard rule. Double negative can make a sentence more klunky (sound awkward) and it is usually better to try and remove it busy most people simply would not care.
@EF @rzeta0 @kibcol1049 to me a double negative is usually emphatic. It's complicated because double negatives in English work differently in different bits of the UK, hence the guidance not to use them when you need clarity. There are lots of cases though like 'no he did not break wind' that are universal-ish
English is what happens when you steal good ideas randomly from everyone else but have nobody doing the architecture for it
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The teacher said "In English a double negative forms a positive. In some languages, though, such as Russian, a double negative is still a negative. However, there is no language wherein a double positive can form a negative."
A voice from the back of the room piped up, "Yeah, right."@kibcol1049 Could be done in french
"Ouais, bien sûr !" -
@HighlandLawyer @AlexanderVI @EF @rzeta0 @kibcol1049 It's not against education, it's against black pedagogy.
@lankohr @AlexanderVI @EF @rzeta0 @kibcol1049
I believe the English term for Schwarze Pädagogik is "poisonous pedagogy", to avoid confusion with educational practices applied to African Americans.But yes, the song (and surrounding material of the film) is explicit on that point.
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@Wolf_Baginski @kibcol1049 But Spanish has a similar expression: "Sí, claro", with the same negative meaning.
What happens is here irony acts, and that's why the meaning changes; it's not a syntax thing, like the double negative stuff.@eleder i mean, i get your point about irony being how meaning shifts, but i disagree that it somehow is unique. ‘Ain’t no reason’ are a double negative syntactically but remain negative. Syntax stops mattering strictly in most of these.
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@the_wub @kibcol1049 @chillicampari "Doch" is the one-word solution for Germans for insisting on being right. "Doch" is what children say, thumping their feet on the ground, crying. "Doch" means "Still" or "Yes I f***g do" or "No, I will never do that" depending on context before. It can also mean "Yes, really!!" after somebody voiced doubt. Famous is Louis de Funes "Nein! Doch! Oooooh! in German Internet culture...
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@the_wub @kibcol1049 @chillicampari "Doch" is the one-word solution for Germans for insisting on being right. "Doch" is what children say, thumping their feet on the ground, crying. "Doch" means "Still" or "Yes I f***g do" or "No, I will never do that" depending on context before. It can also mean "Yes, really!!" after somebody voiced doubt. Famous is Louis de Funes "Nein! Doch! Oooooh! in German Internet culture...
@mfeilner @kibcol1049 @chillicampari My Dutch is significantly better than my German but I understand that "toch" and "doch" are used in similar ways in their respective languages.
"Het regent buiten maar wij gaan toch de stadt in".
"Toch?".
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The teacher said "In English a double negative forms a positive. In some languages, though, such as Russian, a double negative is still a negative. However, there is no language wherein a double positive can form a negative."
A voice from the back of the room piped up, "Yeah, right."Actually happened.
The lecturer was the Oxford linguist JL Austin, giving a talk at Columbia. The smartass in the back of the room was, as always, philosopher Sidney Morgenbesser.
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@the_wub @kibcol1049 @chillicampari "Doch" is the one-word solution for Germans for insisting on being right. "Doch" is what children say, thumping their feet on the ground, crying. "Doch" means "Still" or "Yes I f***g do" or "No, I will never do that" depending on context before. It can also mean "Yes, really!!" after somebody voiced doubt. Famous is Louis de Funes "Nein! Doch! Oooooh! in German Internet culture...
@mfeilner @the_wub @kibcol1049 @chillicampari Yes, and it can mean "Spiegel" (mirror) for "selber!" (You, not me).
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@mfeilner @kibcol1049 @chillicampari My Dutch is significantly better than my German but I understand that "toch" and "doch" are used in similar ways in their respective languages.
"Het regent buiten maar wij gaan toch de stadt in".
"Toch?".
@the_wub @mfeilner @kibcol1049 @chillicampari
Doch carries the freight of contradiction.
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@lankohr @AlexanderVI @EF @rzeta0 @kibcol1049
I believe the English term for Schwarze Pädagogik is "poisonous pedagogy", to avoid confusion with educational practices applied to African Americans.But yes, the song (and surrounding material of the film) is explicit on that point.
@HighlandLawyer @AlexanderVI @EF @rzeta0 @kibcol1049 Ok, i don't get this "black" for "evil" could be confused with skin color, but ok.
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@HighlandLawyer @AlexanderVI @EF @rzeta0 @kibcol1049 Ok, i don't get this "black" for "evil" could be confused with skin color, but ok.
@lankohr @AlexanderVI @EF @rzeta0 @kibcol1049
It's been part of the US culture wars for decades now, if not longer; the rest of the anglosphere just has to roll with it. As a German speaker you may consider it a US Gift for the world. -
@the_wub @kibcol1049 @chillicampari "Doch" is the one-word solution for Germans for insisting on being right. "Doch" is what children say, thumping their feet on the ground, crying. "Doch" means "Still" or "Yes I f***g do" or "No, I will never do that" depending on context before. It can also mean "Yes, really!!" after somebody voiced doubt. Famous is Louis de Funes "Nein! Doch! Oooooh! in German Internet culture...
@mfeilner @the_wub @kibcol1049 @chillicampari "Doch!" (in contrast to "Ja") is the equivalent to French "Si!" (in contrast to "oui").
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The teacher said "In English a double negative forms a positive. In some languages, though, such as Russian, a double negative is still a negative. However, there is no language wherein a double positive can form a negative."
A voice from the back of the room piped up, "Yeah, right."@kibcol1049
I heard this story in school:
Either a teacher or another student said "you can't extend consonants". A different student said "yes you cannn". -
@the_wub @mfeilner @kibcol1049 @chillicampari
Doch carries the freight of contradiction.
@the_wub @mfeilner @kibcol1049 @chillicampari
I once used the word, walking home in the pouring rain, thinking it equivalent to the English "but" - and was roundly scolded for it, in English, I learned the contradiction bit on the fly.
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The teacher said "In English a double negative forms a positive. In some languages, though, such as Russian, a double negative is still a negative. However, there is no language wherein a double positive can form a negative."
A voice from the back of the room piped up, "Yeah, right."@kibcol1049 not wrong.
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The teacher said "In English a double negative forms a positive. In some languages, though, such as Russian, a double negative is still a negative. However, there is no language wherein a double positive can form a negative."
A voice from the back of the room piped up, "Yeah, right." -
@kibcol1049 Reminds me of an old programmer joke:
A wife sends her programmer husband to the grocery store for a loaf of bread...
On his way out she says "and if they have eggs, get a dozen". The programmer husband returns home with 12 loaves of bread and says: "They had eggs."
@lankohr @kibcol1049 @quixoticgeek The programmer joke this reminds me of is the programmer found dead in a shower holding an empty shampoo bottle where the instructions simply said: Lather, rinse, repeat.
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