don't like ai drinking up all the water?

[riwe@det.social]

@pelle @costeer

Nice one, but that does not compare.

[lana@beige.party]

@costeer

I can't eat a data center. Hope this helps.

[pelle@veganism.social]

@riwe @costeer
you can literally just avoid the harm by choosing to buy the plant-based sausages, but instead you're suggesting buying dead birds instead of dead mammals.

that is equal in absurdity to mitigating harm to drivers and their cars by swerving into pedestrians instead.

generative AI and data centers are harmful beyond the water use, and same for animal farms and slaughterhouses: https://watchdominion.org

[normjess@tech.lgbt]

@costeer yes, but more are data centers are being built everywhere, and the big tech companies building them are lying about the shit like the smoking industry did, with their own non-independent reports that imagine water infinitely circling inside them which is lies

and if its YOUR town then suddenly it doesn't matter if every other town's drinking water is still fine. what will you do if its YOU that can't access water?

I cut beef out my diet 5 years ago because its the largest contributor to Climate Change

if you can't give up all meat just give that one up

[gladtherescake@todon.nl]

@pelle @riwe @costeer You do realize that 5 people switching to eating less meat is more effective for your cause than 1 stopping completely, right? Take your wins where you can take them, don't be overly indignant about it. Moderating before stopping is just a good way to reduce harm.

[pelle@veganism.social]

@GLaDTheresCake @riwe @costeer
that is quite a centrist take from self-described »no one is free until we're all free« anarchist.

if you accept the "less meat" excuse, you're opening the door for bullshit excuses:

»i am helping the animal liberation cause by eating a cheeseburger because i could've bought the double cheeseburger.«

i slap you in the face, and so i am helping you end violence, because i slapped less hard than i otherwise would have, and perfrct is the enemy of good, and so on ...

and now i'm getting worried that you yourself are eating animals, when you »your cause« me like that.

[quentin_ld@mastodon.social]

@costeer

[pelle@veganism.social]

Dette indlæg er slettet!

[gladtherescake@todon.nl]

@pelle @riwe @costeer I don't, eat animals. But besides that, you cannot individualize systemic issues like that, that's liberal brainworm territory.

The food system is complicated, for a lot of different reasons, but a large one is the standard of agriculture being one borne of colonizers from Europe. One of impoverishing soil, monocropping, intensive animal farming, and destruction of the environment.

You cannot seriously believe that you can be morally indignant enough to stop the meat industry, or do you also believe if you complain enough about cars the oil industry will just flop over and die? I think getting people to engage with the more constructive elements of any movement will be a lot easier than aggressively shaming them into something. I don't actually think the latter one ever works for anything.

Systemic problems require systemic solutions, and they require strategy as well. Standing on your principles is laudable — and I obviously don't think veganism is evil — but I do think that you cannot force others to immediately share your world view and change something as essential as diet on the spot, especially because the system just isn't designed for that to begin with.

[thisislieven@c.im]

@riwe

I don't think there's a single good approach but it really depends on what your diet is, and also whom you may share most of your meals with.

When you use a lot of ground meat it can be easily replaced with a vegan substitute which virtually no one notices. There are some really good meaty vegan burgers out there as well. Just serve it first, explain later. Avoid the initial automatic rejection many people have.

You can also opt for seitan which can replace both beef and chicken in many many recipes.

And to me the easiest way to make change is to look online for recipes. Just search for '[dish you want] vegan' or search with an ingredient or two. There will be plenty of options that come up, from easy to complex.
I think a lot of people struggle because they have no idea how to cook delicious vegan recipes - it just doesn't enter their brain.

My most successful way to encourage people to eat (more) plant-based is by just cooking great meals for them and let them be surprised by how delicious and satisfying it can be.

@costeer

[drahardja@sfba.social]

@costeer AI isn’t food, chief.

The US uses about 1e14 liters of water for farm irrigation per year. Should we stop that too?

https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/farm-practices-management/irrigation-water-use

[kerplunk@mastodon.scot]

@costeer

Becoming Vegetarian changes a lot too, it also leads to very positive changes in health state and finances.

On top no meat much less cruelty and environmental damage.

[kittenkoder@mastodon.social]

@costeer

Already am. Now destroy the data centers. It's more than just water, they're a problem in every way.

[nomi@norden.social]

@costeer could just forego beef, don’t see how one has to become vegan

[nomi@norden.social]

@pelle @GLaDTheresCake @riwe @costeer are you only accepting pure vegans? The graph is specifically about beef though. Why not acknowledging that mitigating harm is also good?

[ondrejzizka@mastodon.social]

@costeer except beef industry likely doesn't evaporate the water, rather returns it back to the place it is used at.

[pelle@veganism.social]

@GLaDTheresCake @riwe @costeer
»you cannot individualize systemic issues«

what is a sy‍stem if not a collection of individuals?

if you refuse to callout oppressive behaviour from inividual‍s around you — and even tell others off for doing so! — then you're helping enable this oppression.

this is as true for human supremacist violence as for white supremacist violence.

if someone talks about how last weekend they joined a nazi rally and beat up some migrants, and ‍someone else tells this person to not be a nazi, do you rebuke the anti-nazi too for individualizing systemic issues?

the »eat turkeys instead of beef« is like a speciecist version of »attack asians instead of africans.« how can you even defend this stuff?

if you support moderate anti-oppression, then aren't you social democrat than anarchist?

[felurx@troet.cafe]

@Lana @costeer You can use the resources needed to produce meat to instead produce (much more) non-meat food, with much less suffering involved.

[pelle@veganism.social]

@nomi @GLaDTheresCake @riwe @costeer

[pelle@veganism.social]

@nomi @GLaDTheresCake @riwe @costeer
when animals are your food, then you're not mitigating harm to them, you are doing harm to them. they go to the slaughterhouse because of your food habit.

even by eating #plantbased you don't "save" any animals. you just don't actively pay for them to be imprisoned and killed because taste.

if i see a dog, and i don't kick the dog, that's not me mitigating harm. that's just not being an asshole.

#veganism is not being an asshole to animals: it is the absolute minimum.