How important is it to call things by their right name?
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@evan what is this "the[ir] right name" (singular) of which you speak? What makes you believe that there is ever only one right name for a thing?
@jdlh well, do we agree that there are better names and worse names for things?
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@jdlh well, do we agree that there are better names and worse names for things?
@evan only from given political or cultural frames (points of view).
Was the survey worded to call attention to the inherent plural nature of naming, by leaving out that answer on purpose?
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@evan only from given political or cultural frames (points of view).
Was the survey worded to call attention to the inherent plural nature of naming, by leaving out that answer on purpose?
@jdlh I don't know if I have a heart generous enough or a mind flexible enough to say that calling someone a racial slur is better from a white nationalist point of view. There is an absolute scale on which that kind of name is worse precisely because of the POV it's used from. I realise it's an extreme example, sorry.
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@jdlh I don't know if I have a heart generous enough or a mind flexible enough to say that calling someone a racial slur is better from a white nationalist point of view. There is an absolute scale on which that kind of name is worse precisely because of the POV it's used from. I realise it's an extreme example, sorry.
@jdlh and, no, the question is not phrased as a gotcha!!
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@jdlh I don't know if I have a heart generous enough or a mind flexible enough to say that calling someone a racial slur is better from a white nationalist point of view. There is an absolute scale on which that kind of name is worse precisely because of the POV it's used from. I realise it's an extreme example, sorry.
@evan in that example, it seems to be that more important than the rightness of the name, is the wrongness of slurs and of white nationalism. It's a different topic.
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@evan in that example, it seems to be that more important than the rightness of the name, is the wrongness of slurs and of white nationalism. It's a different topic.
@jdlh a slur is a name, though.
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@jdlh a slur is a name, though.
@evan true. Many things in this life are related to other things. But IMHO the "slur" aspect of the slur is more relevant than the "name" aspect.
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@evan true. Many things in this life are related to other things. But IMHO the "slur" aspect of the slur is more relevant than the "name" aspect.
@jdlh OK. I guess I'd just say, answer the question the best you can. If you don't think there's such a thing as a "right name", that may affect how important it is to use the right name for things.
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@jdlh OK. I guess I'd just say, answer the question the best you can. If you don't think there's such a thing as a "right name", that may affect how important it is to use the right name for things.
@evan actually, I interpreted the question as a reference to the name of Lake Ontario. I don't prefer to engage with that particular act of Trump bullying as a good-faith issue of correct naming.
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How important is it to call things by their right name?
@evan things? somewhat important.
people? VERY important.
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How important is it to call things by their right name?
@evan I think the nature of this question comes down entirely to directionality. Who gets to decide what names are right and what names are wrong. I think the state has the least authority to naming. Individuals have a right to naming themselves but not necessarily others. There is also intent inherent in all names. Is the name being proposed with an intent to improve some situation or is the name indented to cause confusion.
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How important is it to call things by their right name?
@evan Bimodal answer for me. I tend to think of people as a subset of "things", and calling people by their right name (ie, the name they want me to use) is extremely important. But for non-people things, humour and whimsy often triumph over correctness. For instance, the thing on the chocolate box telling you which one is which is the "instructions".
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How important is it to call things by their right name?
@evan It depends on how important communicating effectively with other people is.
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How important is it to call things by their right name?
@evan
I went with somewhat important. If what you're calling by name has feelings, very important. If I blank on the name of the freezer, it doesn't have feelings, and I'm inclined to call it "the...uhhh, upper fridge?" -
How important is it to call things by their right name?
@evan
"Somewhat important."
In part because the communication context is important: correctly identifying The Thing to the audience trumps pedantic accuracy *unless* the incorrect choice causes actual harm and/or disrespect. So it's okay to call Lobularia "Alyssum" but not okay to misrepresent a product or dead name somebody.
And in part because of the issues of who gets to decide what the "right" name is? and what's the return on the investment of keeping up to date with it? The pushback from British birdwatchers after an international committee decided that dunnock, a name for an everyday common bird in use for a thousand years, must be replaced by "hedge accentor," a name birthed in committee, was considerable. And for the layman, keeping tabs on the renaming of government departments and agencies is almost as time-consuming and incidental as the taxonomy of flowering plants. -
How important is it to call things by their right name?
@evan somewhat important because a key part of communication is negotiating a common vocabulary. I like to try to meet people where they are and only correct/advance if it's relevant and they're interested. If an elder asks me to help them with their "iPad" and it's an android tablet I'm not going to give them a 15 minute lecture on the difference. I'm gonna fix their tablet
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How important is it to call things by their right name?
@evan but why do you ask?
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@diesch one good example might be saying Free Software instead of Open Source, or GNU/Linux instead of Linux. Another is using the right names for people, like Inuit or Roma. Or using the right terms for difficult social issues, like CSAM or death by suicide.
One person's "right thing" can be another person's wrong thing. Or the "right thing" can differ depending on the context. And sometimes the "adequate thing" is sufficient.
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@evan but why do you ask?
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How important is it to call things by their right name?
@evan
The point of communication is communication. If you are not transferring the right meaning, it is pointless. But also, language is dynamic and shifting. The idea that there is a right name is fundamentally flawed.
