Somewhat alarmed that the LLM detritus seems to no longer have a toggle to be disabled in the iOS 27 and macOS betas.
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@lumi in android, we do have 1000s, with all the budget handset manufacturers, and it is a miserable slog to make software in that environment, which is why nobody does. stochastic competition won't solve this problem, what we need is regulation. a UN agency that develops software in the global public interest, mandates that apple/google accept it, and regulates their developer programs.
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@glyph i hate how there is this duopoly with phone operating systems and neither option really gives you much freedom. we can't just make an ios distro without the apple spyware and llm stuff. making one for android is ... somewhat possible, for now, but google really wants to make sure we do not have that ability anymore
we should have 1000s of competing phone operating systems, such that they are forced to interoperate and work together. not this shitty duopoly -
@lumi I mean this is absolute fantasy but so's the competitive environment where 1000s of independent OS providers could exist, so, as long as we're fantasizing, let's dream big
@glyph i think government regulation could also work here, yeah
though it would have to be done in a way where anyone could make their own from scratch (as in, devices should not be locked down, remote attestation tech should be banned, etc)
also abolish IP law and put software freedom into law (as in, if you distribute software, you must make sure someone else can build it themselves, modify it and run it with the same features even if modified)
i know, lofty goals, but software freedom and device neutrality should be non-negotiable -
@dianea That's just so horrible, for them, their families, for you, just in general. Of course I know in theory that lead poisoning is a serious problem, but I never imagined someone personally knowing that many people who died from it.
(And of course it's far from the only thing people die of in industrial contexts.)
So easy to get a disabling dose of lead poisoning from a single exposure. Working around lead acid batteries and forklifts, breathing any of that white dust. Not washing hands before eating a candy bar with that sweet white lead oxide powder on the fingers. Working in plastics production, heat or fire resistant plastics almost always have lead, antimony, or both. Electrical wire, PVC, probably has it, from experience as someone who maintained the extruders that made it. I know why they use it, as yellowed brittle plastics don't have it. Lead makes people go absolute batshit crazy in about two months. AI seems to have that ability too.
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Protesting LLMs by refusing to use any software that includes them feels like attempting to protest the introduction of tetraethyl lead into gasoline by refusing to breathe until everyone stops putting it in their cars. So I am drawing my personal moral lines in such a way that I will probably accept this.
But please don't mistake this for excitement about huffing a bunch of vaporized lead.
@glyph less of a protest than a desire to continue to have working software. the brainrotted have signaled you won't be getting that from them anymore
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@dianea I frequently think "the metaphors I am coming up with are way too bleak. surely someone with direct experience with ionizing radiation / lead / biohazards would chastise me for catastrophizing this" and then people with experience in the fields keep showing up and telling me that I'm not pessimistic *enough*
Don't laugh, but I would rather work around gamma radiation or hazmat again than have to work with AI 🫠
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Somewhat alarmed that the LLM detritus seems to no longer have a toggle to be disabled in the iOS 27 and macOS betas. I hope, but do not expect, that it will come back in the final releases.
If I want to still be able to set a timer when I'm cooking with my voice, I probably need to accept a bunch of nonconsensual slop ("writing tools") being shoved in my face in every app.
@glyph if you disable Siri, then re-enable, you get old Siri and have to explicitly re-enable the new AI Siri (at least on the first developer beta). I believe that will disable most of the AI stuff, but I haven’t messed around with it much.
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@glyph i think government regulation could also work here, yeah
though it would have to be done in a way where anyone could make their own from scratch (as in, devices should not be locked down, remote attestation tech should be banned, etc)
also abolish IP law and put software freedom into law (as in, if you distribute software, you must make sure someone else can build it themselves, modify it and run it with the same features even if modified)
i know, lofty goals, but software freedom and device neutrality should be non-negotiable@lumi @glyph
You'd love Maemo Leste's NLnet page.
Unlike postmarketOS's entry it very explicitly calls out Apple and Google's business practices:
https://nlnet.nl/project/MaemoLeste/ -
@glyph if you disable Siri, then re-enable, you get old Siri and have to explicitly re-enable the new AI Siri (at least on the first developer beta). I believe that will disable most of the AI stuff, but I haven’t messed around with it much.
@josh0 thanks, that is hopeful! please send feedback that this is a desirable state and they should expose it
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So easy to get a disabling dose of lead poisoning from a single exposure. Working around lead acid batteries and forklifts, breathing any of that white dust. Not washing hands before eating a candy bar with that sweet white lead oxide powder on the fingers. Working in plastics production, heat or fire resistant plastics almost always have lead, antimony, or both. Electrical wire, PVC, probably has it, from experience as someone who maintained the extruders that made it. I know why they use it, as yellowed brittle plastics don't have it. Lead makes people go absolute batshit crazy in about two months. AI seems to have that ability too.
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Protesting LLMs by refusing to use any software that includes them feels like attempting to protest the introduction of tetraethyl lead into gasoline by refusing to breathe until everyone stops putting it in their cars. So I am drawing my personal moral lines in such a way that I will probably accept this.
But please don't mistake this for excitement about huffing a bunch of vaporized lead.
@glyph I'll choose on a case by case basis with a default of no.
This isn't just about my ethics and morals, projects using #LLM tools are making political, moral, ethical and environmental statements about those running them and the community of those involved as contributors and users.
Another important reason for me is security. I by default expect more problems because of a lower level of care, understanding and attention to detail, including security.
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One of the best mentors I worked with started repairing the forklift battery trays and welding new slides in the lifts. The fumes from vaporizing lead into the welds did not impact structural integrity of the steel, but the body absorbs lead like calcium. The nervous system seems to struggle with lead as a calcium replacement. He made it one month before his mental facilities were no longer compatible with employment or the legal system. He passed away a year later. AI seems to be that same road in a way, taking the lives of motivated people and turning their minds into slop.
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@glyph i think government regulation could also work here, yeah
though it would have to be done in a way where anyone could make their own from scratch (as in, devices should not be locked down, remote attestation tech should be banned, etc)
also abolish IP law and put software freedom into law (as in, if you distribute software, you must make sure someone else can build it themselves, modify it and run it with the same features even if modified)
i know, lofty goals, but software freedom and device neutrality should be non-negotiable -
@sharpcheddargoblin get ready, I guess
. It would be an impractical amount of effort for me to migrate, but, there's also the question of what to migrate *to*. The people who maintain the only other even *vaguely* feasible phone operating system are the ones that Apple is buying their new, "better" LLMs _from_@glyph yeah it’s dire. De-Googled Android might remain viable for a while but Google could move to cripple that entirely any time.
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Protesting LLMs by refusing to use any software that includes them feels like attempting to protest the introduction of tetraethyl lead into gasoline by refusing to breathe until everyone stops putting it in their cars. So I am drawing my personal moral lines in such a way that I will probably accept this.
But please don't mistake this for excitement about huffing a bunch of vaporized lead.
@glyph For software that I used since pre-LLM times I continue being a user only if they offer a switch to disable LLM functions or alternatively if I can ignore the LLM functions. This is the sad category where I'm putting GitHub, Google Apps and many others.
But for new software I have never used before, the existence of LLM functionality is a deal breaker.
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@josh0 thanks, that is hopeful! please send feedback that this is a desirable state and they should expose it
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@SolTwoOne @glyph ok, but Image Playground is a discrete app. Just don’t use it, and it has no impact on you.
Some of the features that are now labeled as ‘Apple Intelligence’ have been around since before LLMs were the next big thing.
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Somewhat alarmed that the LLM detritus seems to no longer have a toggle to be disabled in the iOS 27 and macOS betas. I hope, but do not expect, that it will come back in the final releases.
If I want to still be able to set a timer when I'm cooking with my voice, I probably need to accept a bunch of nonconsensual slop ("writing tools") being shoved in my face in every app.
Apple shipped a toggle for "do you want AI slop in your face" and then removed it before release. The opt-out existing at all was probably an accident.
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Apple shipped a toggle for "do you want AI slop in your face" and then removed it before release. The opt-out existing at all was probably an accident.
@prometheus that is not an accurate description of what happened? the “apple intelligence” toggle has been present in many releases thus far. it appears to be missing from current betas, but it’s not clear if that is to encourage beta users to test this functionality or because it’s actually going away
