One of the many, many, many horrible things about what ICE is doing is that now any group of white men in tactical gear with an SUV can attack, beat up, and kidnap any random person — and nobody will stop them, because who knows, they •might• be ICE, a...
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One of the many, many, many horrible things about what ICE is doing is that now any group of white men in tactical gear with an SUV can attack, beat up, and kidnap any random person — and nobody will stop them, because who knows, they •might• be ICE, and you can’t obstruct federal agents, now, can you?? https://pdx.social/@portlandmercury/115901949802924271
@inthehands Trump and ICE create a real-daily-life dystopia.
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@inthehands Speaking of tactics, I had a random thought... balloons.
Specifically, water balloons. Thrown at ICE cars. To make them extra ICE-y. Is it cold enough for that to maybe work? Freeze them into or out of their vehicles?
@solitha @inthehands nitrile gloves don't break down with gas. Sure does suppress your willingness to use firearms when the fire will catch you first.
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This poses a vexing problem for resistance: a direct force-on-force assault against ICE by small groups of citizens is foolish…but holding signs and waiting for the next election sure as hell ain’t gonna cut it either.
We have to find ways to fight back on the streets — but it has to look good on TikTok and on the news and to members of Congress and judges and the gaze of the whole world. Cameras and whistles are a start, but it can’t stop there. All this is not just going away on its own.
@inthehands
Wintertime super soakers? -
Somewhere between pacifism that is just passivism and starting a pyrrhic hot war that only entrenches authoritarianism, there’s some kind of jiu jitsu here that is active and forceful resistance, but uses the regime’s own force against them.
I do not pretend to know what exactly that is. I do believe that a diversity of tactics is important — and that we’re all going to have to accept the work of holding ourselves together as a resistance even as people choose very different tactics we’re not comfortable with ourselves.
@inthehands Interesting thread!
As an aside, I recently learned that an ICE agent has never died in the course of performing their duties. Of course, ICE is young enough to still be on its parents health insurance. Even the antecedent agencies agencies had not lost an officer since 1946 (during the transfer of a detainee). Much safer than being a classroom teacher. -
One of the many, many, many horrible things about what ICE is doing is that now any group of white men in tactical gear with an SUV can attack, beat up, and kidnap any random person — and nobody will stop them, because who knows, they •might• be ICE, and you can’t obstruct federal agents, now, can you?? https://pdx.social/@portlandmercury/115901949802924271
I almost want to believe that you could get a bunch of other people dressed up in the similar way and go in all the way these ice guys off duty.
Fantasy but it’s so easy to think of vengeance in this time
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One of the many, many, many horrible things about what ICE is doing is that now any group of white men in tactical gear with an SUV can attack, beat up, and kidnap any random person — and nobody will stop them, because who knows, they •might• be ICE, and you can’t obstruct federal agents, now, can you?? https://pdx.social/@portlandmercury/115901949802924271
@inthehands third world countries like
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Somewhere between pacifism that is just passivism and starting a pyrrhic hot war that only entrenches authoritarianism, there’s some kind of jiu jitsu here that is active and forceful resistance, but uses the regime’s own force against them.
I do not pretend to know what exactly that is. I do believe that a diversity of tactics is important — and that we’re all going to have to accept the work of holding ourselves together as a resistance even as people choose very different tactics we’re not comfortable with ourselves.
@inthehands I'm going suggest reading the first half of "Learning to Eat Soup with a Knife" by Col. John Nagl. https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Eat-Soup-Knife-Counterinsurgency/dp/0226567702 You're essentially fighting an insurgency of well-equipped fanatics who lack local support, logistics, and discipline. Nagl is smart, he revised the Army's counterinsurgency manual, and he compares how the British in Malaysia effectively defeated communist insurgents while still keeping the public on their side.
The book is not so much on military operation but on winning hearts and minds, showing how one army did and another army didn't in very similar conflicts.
That's essentially your challenge - direct armed confrontation will not work, surrender will not work, but the current tactics seem to slowly be working. Tracking them, getting in their way, goading them til they lose discipline, not letting them have a good night's rest, pressuring companies not to do business with them - all that corrodes their morale. The danger is someone else will snap and shoot another poet in the face again. But they've already proven they'll do that casually so there's really no additional risk.
They're an occupying force. Make them feel that every day until they leave. Make every Minnesota winter day that much colder and more miserable for them. Be like the northern Midwest winter and make them hate life.
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@inthehands I'm going suggest reading the first half of "Learning to Eat Soup with a Knife" by Col. John Nagl. https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Eat-Soup-Knife-Counterinsurgency/dp/0226567702 You're essentially fighting an insurgency of well-equipped fanatics who lack local support, logistics, and discipline. Nagl is smart, he revised the Army's counterinsurgency manual, and he compares how the British in Malaysia effectively defeated communist insurgents while still keeping the public on their side.
The book is not so much on military operation but on winning hearts and minds, showing how one army did and another army didn't in very similar conflicts.
That's essentially your challenge - direct armed confrontation will not work, surrender will not work, but the current tactics seem to slowly be working. Tracking them, getting in their way, goading them til they lose discipline, not letting them have a good night's rest, pressuring companies not to do business with them - all that corrodes their morale. The danger is someone else will snap and shoot another poet in the face again. But they've already proven they'll do that casually so there's really no additional risk.
They're an occupying force. Make them feel that every day until they leave. Make every Minnesota winter day that much colder and more miserable for them. Be like the northern Midwest winter and make them hate life.
@arclight
This is the most coherent answer I’ve received. -
@inthehands Signal networks of trusted partners. For the long haul in an asymmetric struggle.
@fgbjr
The US government can shut down Signal.Don't get me wrong, it's probably the best solution for now. But decentralized backup plans should be lurking.
@inthehands -
One of the many, many, many horrible things about what ICE is doing is that now any group of white men in tactical gear with an SUV can attack, beat up, and kidnap any random person — and nobody will stop them, because who knows, they •might• be ICE, and you can’t obstruct federal agents, now, can you?? https://pdx.social/@portlandmercury/115901949802924271
@inthehands as sick as it sounds...maybe the solution is to cosplay and go raid MAGA bars?
Some people only care if it is happening to them...
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This poses a vexing problem for resistance: a direct force-on-force assault against ICE by small groups of citizens is foolish…but holding signs and waiting for the next election sure as hell ain’t gonna cut it either.
We have to find ways to fight back on the streets — but it has to look good on TikTok and on the news and to members of Congress and judges and the gaze of the whole world. Cameras and whistles are a start, but it can’t stop there. All this is not just going away on its own.
This right here has always been the pragmatic reasoning behind civil disobedience.
We have to find ways to fight back on the streets — but it has to look good on TikTok and on the news and to members of Congress and judges and the gaze of the whole world. Cameras and whistles are a start, but it can’t stop there. All this is not just going away on its own.
Every situation and context requires finding new ways to accomplish this. But the regime’s thirst for a shooting conflict is, as you say, the reason to keep looking. And IDK what the answer is. I do know that the real history of civil disobedience has been Disneyfied in our popular consciousness, which is dangerous.
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@fgbjr
The US government can shut down Signal.Don't get me wrong, it's probably the best solution for now. But decentralized backup plans should be lurking.
@inthehands@notsoloud @inthehands One uses the tools that are available, obviously.
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Somewhere between pacifism that is just passivism and starting a pyrrhic hot war that only entrenches authoritarianism, there’s some kind of jiu jitsu here that is active and forceful resistance, but uses the regime’s own force against them.
I do not pretend to know what exactly that is. I do believe that a diversity of tactics is important — and that we’re all going to have to accept the work of holding ourselves together as a resistance even as people choose very different tactics we’re not comfortable with ourselves.
@inthehands nonviolent direct action comes to mind, but no clue
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@inthehands
Wintertime super soakers?Okay, now that's just mean
But I'm also remembering the phase of the NoDAPL protests where the fash turned firehoses on the protesters in the dead of Dakota winter and...maaaaybe that's not a tactic we want to remind them of.
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@fgbjr
The US government can shut down Signal.Don't get me wrong, it's probably the best solution for now. But decentralized backup plans should be lurking.
@inthehandsMeshnet
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@inthehands Interesting thread!
As an aside, I recently learned that an ICE agent has never died in the course of performing their duties. Of course, ICE is young enough to still be on its parents health insurance. Even the antecedent agencies agencies had not lost an officer since 1946 (during the transfer of a detainee). Much safer than being a classroom teacher.@ERBeckman @inthehands that last phrase sounds absolutely crazy, doesn’t it?
But in the USA… -
Somewhere between pacifism that is just passivism and starting a pyrrhic hot war that only entrenches authoritarianism, there’s some kind of jiu jitsu here that is active and forceful resistance, but uses the regime’s own force against them.
I do not pretend to know what exactly that is. I do believe that a diversity of tactics is important — and that we’re all going to have to accept the work of holding ourselves together as a resistance even as people choose very different tactics we’re not comfortable with ourselves.
@inthehands Simply wait. The high school dropouts being recruited from West Bumfuck KY with the 10x Walmart wages and then dropped into the middle of the biggest city they’ve ever seen are being deliberately kettled by their own employer to make them go crazy. The game plan is one of them eventually shoots up a daycare and gets greased by the enraged parents, who will then get paraded on Fox News as an unstoppable angry mob, justifying the Insurrection Act and ending the need for further elections. That game plan isn’t working because the citizens of Minnesota are doing the right things. It may feel ineffectual but the alternatives are all worse, and eventually the citizens win. The battle here is for Minnesota, not national politics as a whole.
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@inthehands I'm going suggest reading the first half of "Learning to Eat Soup with a Knife" by Col. John Nagl. https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Eat-Soup-Knife-Counterinsurgency/dp/0226567702 You're essentially fighting an insurgency of well-equipped fanatics who lack local support, logistics, and discipline. Nagl is smart, he revised the Army's counterinsurgency manual, and he compares how the British in Malaysia effectively defeated communist insurgents while still keeping the public on their side.
The book is not so much on military operation but on winning hearts and minds, showing how one army did and another army didn't in very similar conflicts.
That's essentially your challenge - direct armed confrontation will not work, surrender will not work, but the current tactics seem to slowly be working. Tracking them, getting in their way, goading them til they lose discipline, not letting them have a good night's rest, pressuring companies not to do business with them - all that corrodes their morale. The danger is someone else will snap and shoot another poet in the face again. But they've already proven they'll do that casually so there's really no additional risk.
They're an occupying force. Make them feel that every day until they leave. Make every Minnesota winter day that much colder and more miserable for them. Be like the northern Midwest winter and make them hate life.
@arclight @inthehands I’ve read this book also and I strongly second this recommendation. Sometimes you can’t make a situation better, but you can certainly make it worse. Never interrupt your enemy when they’re busy making a mistake, and this big sloppy plan to get some redneck patsy killed is a mistake.
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Somewhere between pacifism that is just passivism and starting a pyrrhic hot war that only entrenches authoritarianism, there’s some kind of jiu jitsu here that is active and forceful resistance, but uses the regime’s own force against them.
I do not pretend to know what exactly that is. I do believe that a diversity of tactics is important — and that we’re all going to have to accept the work of holding ourselves together as a resistance even as people choose very different tactics we’re not comfortable with ourselves.
-
This poses a vexing problem for resistance: a direct force-on-force assault against ICE by small groups of citizens is foolish…but holding signs and waiting for the next election sure as hell ain’t gonna cut it either.
We have to find ways to fight back on the streets — but it has to look good on TikTok and on the news and to members of Congress and judges and the gaze of the whole world. Cameras and whistles are a start, but it can’t stop there. All this is not just going away on its own.
@inthehands that is the genius of Portland inflatables
