One of the many, many, many horrible things about what ICE is doing is that now any group of white men in tactical gear with an SUV can attack, beat up, and kidnap any random person — and nobody will stop them, because who knows, they •might• be ICE, a...
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Somewhere between pacifism that is just passivism and starting a pyrrhic hot war that only entrenches authoritarianism, there’s some kind of jiu jitsu here that is active and forceful resistance, but uses the regime’s own force against them.
I do not pretend to know what exactly that is. I do believe that a diversity of tactics is important — and that we’re all going to have to accept the work of holding ourselves together as a resistance even as people choose very different tactics we’re not comfortable with ourselves.
@inthehands This is why I was talking about the black panthers the other day - they shot almost no one, even the FBI's own numbers say they got like, 13 cops, total, and the FBI had every reason to try to inflate that number.
But they did show up armed and ready to shoot *back* if needed.
Which I think is a good balance forr where we're at now - don't start escalating shit, but make sure they know that if they start escalating, they're not going to be making to the hotel bar for drinks after. -
@tropicalchaos
We outnumber them, but we don’t come close to out-arming the military.If the escalation isn’t halted by Congress or courts or an election — and I’m not counting on any of those — if it proceeds to the cusp of total authoritarian consolidation, then a whole lot hinges on which way the US military rank and file goes.
@inthehands a lot hinges on who in the military actually cares about disobeying illegal orders and that isn't pleasant to think about, but I agree with you.
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This poses a vexing problem for resistance: a direct force-on-force assault against ICE by small groups of citizens is foolish…but holding signs and waiting for the next election sure as hell ain’t gonna cut it either.
We have to find ways to fight back on the streets — but it has to look good on TikTok and on the news and to members of Congress and judges and the gaze of the whole world. Cameras and whistles are a start, but it can’t stop there. All this is not just going away on its own.
@inthehands
A nationwide general strike. -
Somewhere between pacifism that is just passivism and starting a pyrrhic hot war that only entrenches authoritarianism, there’s some kind of jiu jitsu here that is active and forceful resistance, but uses the regime’s own force against them.
I do not pretend to know what exactly that is. I do believe that a diversity of tactics is important — and that we’re all going to have to accept the work of holding ourselves together as a resistance even as people choose very different tactics we’re not comfortable with ourselves.
@inthehands I think too often people mistake a commitment to non-violence with being a pushover or being passive, but that's not the case at all. The effectiveness of the loud, annoying, firm, direct, omnipresent neighborhood rapid response efforts that y'all have developed in the Twin Cities shows that, and the history of effective nonviolent movements shows that too.
The regime is already having its use of force massively backfire against them. This is a weak regime. Despite their best efforts, they have not consolidated the media, they have not consolidated the legal system, they have not consolidated local governments and security forces, and they have not managed to get people to mass snitch on their neighbours. They are doing cruel, easily visible, random violence to people, and it is not tamping down dissent. It is having the opposite effect - of spurring people into action to stand up for their neighbours, to waste their time, to degrade their morale, to document everything they're doing, and to show up in such numbers that the agents just give up and run away. So many of y'all in Minneapolis are finding your courage and I am heartened by seeing it.
Finally, there are so many examples just in the last few years around the world of people resisting authoritarianism to learn from, and examples of how to do effective resistance. America is not Hong Kong, or Indonesia, or Venezuela, or Iran, or Myanmar, or Thailand, or Bangladesh, or Nepal, or Mongolia, or Kenya, or Madagascar. But the examples of tactics that work in modern times are so many and so rich. And overwhelmingly, the peaceful movements win.
Solidarity with all of you, and may you find the energy to keep showing up for your neighbours, day after day.
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This poses a vexing problem for resistance: a direct force-on-force assault against ICE by small groups of citizens is foolish…but holding signs and waiting for the next election sure as hell ain’t gonna cut it either.
We have to find ways to fight back on the streets — but it has to look good on TikTok and on the news and to members of Congress and judges and the gaze of the whole world. Cameras and whistles are a start, but it can’t stop there. All this is not just going away on its own.
@inthehands force on force may be the only way, there are only about 20K of them. The military isn't as likely to just go around the city in an unorderly fashion. The question would be more if they would do the same job or revolt.
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One of the many, many, many horrible things about what ICE is doing is that now any group of white men in tactical gear with an SUV can attack, beat up, and kidnap any random person — and nobody will stop them, because who knows, they •might• be ICE, and you can’t obstruct federal agents, now, can you?? https://pdx.social/@portlandmercury/115901949802924271
@inthehands Trump and ICE create a real-daily-life dystopia.
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@inthehands Speaking of tactics, I had a random thought... balloons.
Specifically, water balloons. Thrown at ICE cars. To make them extra ICE-y. Is it cold enough for that to maybe work? Freeze them into or out of their vehicles?
@solitha @inthehands nitrile gloves don't break down with gas. Sure does suppress your willingness to use firearms when the fire will catch you first.
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This poses a vexing problem for resistance: a direct force-on-force assault against ICE by small groups of citizens is foolish…but holding signs and waiting for the next election sure as hell ain’t gonna cut it either.
We have to find ways to fight back on the streets — but it has to look good on TikTok and on the news and to members of Congress and judges and the gaze of the whole world. Cameras and whistles are a start, but it can’t stop there. All this is not just going away on its own.
@inthehands
Wintertime super soakers? -
Somewhere between pacifism that is just passivism and starting a pyrrhic hot war that only entrenches authoritarianism, there’s some kind of jiu jitsu here that is active and forceful resistance, but uses the regime’s own force against them.
I do not pretend to know what exactly that is. I do believe that a diversity of tactics is important — and that we’re all going to have to accept the work of holding ourselves together as a resistance even as people choose very different tactics we’re not comfortable with ourselves.
@inthehands Interesting thread!
As an aside, I recently learned that an ICE agent has never died in the course of performing their duties. Of course, ICE is young enough to still be on its parents health insurance. Even the antecedent agencies agencies had not lost an officer since 1946 (during the transfer of a detainee). Much safer than being a classroom teacher. -
One of the many, many, many horrible things about what ICE is doing is that now any group of white men in tactical gear with an SUV can attack, beat up, and kidnap any random person — and nobody will stop them, because who knows, they •might• be ICE, and you can’t obstruct federal agents, now, can you?? https://pdx.social/@portlandmercury/115901949802924271
I almost want to believe that you could get a bunch of other people dressed up in the similar way and go in all the way these ice guys off duty.
Fantasy but it’s so easy to think of vengeance in this time
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One of the many, many, many horrible things about what ICE is doing is that now any group of white men in tactical gear with an SUV can attack, beat up, and kidnap any random person — and nobody will stop them, because who knows, they •might• be ICE, and you can’t obstruct federal agents, now, can you?? https://pdx.social/@portlandmercury/115901949802924271
@inthehands third world countries like
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Somewhere between pacifism that is just passivism and starting a pyrrhic hot war that only entrenches authoritarianism, there’s some kind of jiu jitsu here that is active and forceful resistance, but uses the regime’s own force against them.
I do not pretend to know what exactly that is. I do believe that a diversity of tactics is important — and that we’re all going to have to accept the work of holding ourselves together as a resistance even as people choose very different tactics we’re not comfortable with ourselves.
@inthehands I'm going suggest reading the first half of "Learning to Eat Soup with a Knife" by Col. John Nagl. https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Eat-Soup-Knife-Counterinsurgency/dp/0226567702 You're essentially fighting an insurgency of well-equipped fanatics who lack local support, logistics, and discipline. Nagl is smart, he revised the Army's counterinsurgency manual, and he compares how the British in Malaysia effectively defeated communist insurgents while still keeping the public on their side.
The book is not so much on military operation but on winning hearts and minds, showing how one army did and another army didn't in very similar conflicts.
That's essentially your challenge - direct armed confrontation will not work, surrender will not work, but the current tactics seem to slowly be working. Tracking them, getting in their way, goading them til they lose discipline, not letting them have a good night's rest, pressuring companies not to do business with them - all that corrodes their morale. The danger is someone else will snap and shoot another poet in the face again. But they've already proven they'll do that casually so there's really no additional risk.
They're an occupying force. Make them feel that every day until they leave. Make every Minnesota winter day that much colder and more miserable for them. Be like the northern Midwest winter and make them hate life.
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@inthehands I'm going suggest reading the first half of "Learning to Eat Soup with a Knife" by Col. John Nagl. https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Eat-Soup-Knife-Counterinsurgency/dp/0226567702 You're essentially fighting an insurgency of well-equipped fanatics who lack local support, logistics, and discipline. Nagl is smart, he revised the Army's counterinsurgency manual, and he compares how the British in Malaysia effectively defeated communist insurgents while still keeping the public on their side.
The book is not so much on military operation but on winning hearts and minds, showing how one army did and another army didn't in very similar conflicts.
That's essentially your challenge - direct armed confrontation will not work, surrender will not work, but the current tactics seem to slowly be working. Tracking them, getting in their way, goading them til they lose discipline, not letting them have a good night's rest, pressuring companies not to do business with them - all that corrodes their morale. The danger is someone else will snap and shoot another poet in the face again. But they've already proven they'll do that casually so there's really no additional risk.
They're an occupying force. Make them feel that every day until they leave. Make every Minnesota winter day that much colder and more miserable for them. Be like the northern Midwest winter and make them hate life.
@arclight
This is the most coherent answer I’ve received. -
@inthehands Signal networks of trusted partners. For the long haul in an asymmetric struggle.
@fgbjr
The US government can shut down Signal.Don't get me wrong, it's probably the best solution for now. But decentralized backup plans should be lurking.
@inthehands -
One of the many, many, many horrible things about what ICE is doing is that now any group of white men in tactical gear with an SUV can attack, beat up, and kidnap any random person — and nobody will stop them, because who knows, they •might• be ICE, and you can’t obstruct federal agents, now, can you?? https://pdx.social/@portlandmercury/115901949802924271
@inthehands as sick as it sounds...maybe the solution is to cosplay and go raid MAGA bars?
Some people only care if it is happening to them...
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This poses a vexing problem for resistance: a direct force-on-force assault against ICE by small groups of citizens is foolish…but holding signs and waiting for the next election sure as hell ain’t gonna cut it either.
We have to find ways to fight back on the streets — but it has to look good on TikTok and on the news and to members of Congress and judges and the gaze of the whole world. Cameras and whistles are a start, but it can’t stop there. All this is not just going away on its own.
This right here has always been the pragmatic reasoning behind civil disobedience.
We have to find ways to fight back on the streets — but it has to look good on TikTok and on the news and to members of Congress and judges and the gaze of the whole world. Cameras and whistles are a start, but it can’t stop there. All this is not just going away on its own.
Every situation and context requires finding new ways to accomplish this. But the regime’s thirst for a shooting conflict is, as you say, the reason to keep looking. And IDK what the answer is. I do know that the real history of civil disobedience has been Disneyfied in our popular consciousness, which is dangerous.
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@fgbjr
The US government can shut down Signal.Don't get me wrong, it's probably the best solution for now. But decentralized backup plans should be lurking.
@inthehands@notsoloud @inthehands One uses the tools that are available, obviously.
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Somewhere between pacifism that is just passivism and starting a pyrrhic hot war that only entrenches authoritarianism, there’s some kind of jiu jitsu here that is active and forceful resistance, but uses the regime’s own force against them.
I do not pretend to know what exactly that is. I do believe that a diversity of tactics is important — and that we’re all going to have to accept the work of holding ourselves together as a resistance even as people choose very different tactics we’re not comfortable with ourselves.
@inthehands nonviolent direct action comes to mind, but no clue
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@inthehands
Wintertime super soakers?Okay, now that's just mean
But I'm also remembering the phase of the NoDAPL protests where the fash turned firehoses on the protesters in the dead of Dakota winter and...maaaaybe that's not a tactic we want to remind them of.
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@fgbjr
The US government can shut down Signal.Don't get me wrong, it's probably the best solution for now. But decentralized backup plans should be lurking.
@inthehandsMeshnet
