It’s interesting that people who support age verification have to ask what the problem is.
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RE: https://eupolicy.social/@hpod16/117286020053320946
It’s interesting that people who support age verification have to ask what the problem is. As if it was a big mystery.
Asking people to reveal their personally identification so they can use the internet isn’t a problem that should need to be explained. But since you asked…
1. Our data can not be protected online. Especially by every random person who has the means to buy a domain and pay for hosting.
2. Forcing identification is a barrier for many people. That’s exclusion. And in many cases ableism.
3. Age verification won’t keep kids from using technology. If their parents are that disconnected, they’ll help them through the gates and move on. Restricting access creates a hurdle, not an impasse.
4. Age verification puts the onus on people using the web instead of the people make parts of it horrible. We are victims of nefarious systems. We are not the problem. The systems are. That should be the focus of solutions.
@markwyner This woman is not very bright. She has to think of it and going out and showing everyone her ID, telling who her friends are, what she reads, what she bought the previous month, and who she voted for, amongst other things.
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RE: https://eupolicy.social/@hpod16/117286020053320946
It’s interesting that people who support age verification have to ask what the problem is. As if it was a big mystery.
Asking people to reveal their personally identification so they can use the internet isn’t a problem that should need to be explained. But since you asked…
1. Our data can not be protected online. Especially by every random person who has the means to buy a domain and pay for hosting.
2. Forcing identification is a barrier for many people. That’s exclusion. And in many cases ableism.
3. Age verification won’t keep kids from using technology. If their parents are that disconnected, they’ll help them through the gates and move on. Restricting access creates a hurdle, not an impasse.
4. Age verification puts the onus on people using the web instead of the people make parts of it horrible. We are victims of nefarious systems. We are not the problem. The systems are. That should be the focus of solutions.
@markwyner well-founded opposition is now "negative chatter?"
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RE: https://eupolicy.social/@hpod16/117286020053320946
It’s interesting that people who support age verification have to ask what the problem is. As if it was a big mystery.
Asking people to reveal their personally identification so they can use the internet isn’t a problem that should need to be explained. But since you asked…
1. Our data can not be protected online. Especially by every random person who has the means to buy a domain and pay for hosting.
2. Forcing identification is a barrier for many people. That’s exclusion. And in many cases ableism.
3. Age verification won’t keep kids from using technology. If their parents are that disconnected, they’ll help them through the gates and move on. Restricting access creates a hurdle, not an impasse.
4. Age verification puts the onus on people using the web instead of the people make parts of it horrible. We are victims of nefarious systems. We are not the problem. The systems are. That should be the focus of solutions.
@markwyner we use age verification for loads of things already, why were people not up in arms about that. Buying cigarettes? Driving cars? Getting bank account? Voting? All your points apply to those. Why should we be challenged on any of those.
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@markwyner we use age verification for loads of things already, why were people not up in arms about that. Buying cigarettes? Driving cars? Getting bank account? Voting? All your points apply to those. Why should we be challenged on any of those.
@romli @markwyner Those are not merely age verification acts, those are authorization acts.
The moment you get why that distinction is important, you’ll understand what “age verification” truly is and where the problem lies.
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@markwyner we use age verification for loads of things already, why were people not up in arms about that. Buying cigarettes? Driving cars? Getting bank account? Voting? All your points apply to those. Why should we be challenged on any of those.
now extend those for permission to go outside at all - children are no longer allowed because we somehow can't make the roads safe and it is achieved by putting up guards from random private companies at everyones front door
that's what's being worked towards digitally
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RE: https://eupolicy.social/@hpod16/117286020053320946
It’s interesting that people who support age verification have to ask what the problem is. As if it was a big mystery.
Asking people to reveal their personally identification so they can use the internet isn’t a problem that should need to be explained. But since you asked…
1. Our data can not be protected online. Especially by every random person who has the means to buy a domain and pay for hosting.
2. Forcing identification is a barrier for many people. That’s exclusion. And in many cases ableism.
3. Age verification won’t keep kids from using technology. If their parents are that disconnected, they’ll help them through the gates and move on. Restricting access creates a hurdle, not an impasse.
4. Age verification puts the onus on people using the web instead of the people make parts of it horrible. We are victims of nefarious systems. We are not the problem. The systems are. That should be the focus of solutions.
@markwyner There's a US bill doing this right now. S.5090, the Digital Age Assurance Act (bipartisan: Kim, Schiff, Lummis, Barrasso), requires every OS maker to gate first use behind an age-verified account — no carve-out for open source. California passed nearly identical language and already added an open-source exemption. The federal version hasn't. https://thebluf.news/p/digital-age-assurance-act-grapheneos-account-mandate
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@markwyner we use age verification for loads of things already, why were people not up in arms about that. Buying cigarettes? Driving cars? Getting bank account? Voting? All your points apply to those. Why should we be challenged on any of those.
@romli @markwyner the only one that list that is remotely comparable to online age verification is cigarettes. The rest aren't actually age verification, but are instead identity verification. The age limit is incidental.
For "you must be this old to X" situations, you typically only give your information out on a temporary, controlled, basis. The cashier checks your ID and gives it back. If they took a photo that'd be suspicious. If they took it out of your sight, that'd also be suspicious. You have no control in online contexts, the information leaves your sight the moment you hit submit and you can't know what the "trusted third-party" does with it.
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RE: https://eupolicy.social/@hpod16/117286020053320946
It’s interesting that people who support age verification have to ask what the problem is. As if it was a big mystery.
Asking people to reveal their personally identification so they can use the internet isn’t a problem that should need to be explained. But since you asked…
1. Our data can not be protected online. Especially by every random person who has the means to buy a domain and pay for hosting.
2. Forcing identification is a barrier for many people. That’s exclusion. And in many cases ableism.
3. Age verification won’t keep kids from using technology. If their parents are that disconnected, they’ll help them through the gates and move on. Restricting access creates a hurdle, not an impasse.
4. Age verification puts the onus on people using the web instead of the people make parts of it horrible. We are victims of nefarious systems. We are not the problem. The systems are. That should be the focus of solutions.
@markwyner 4-6 hours online a day seemed like a lot to me until I realized they’re probably including time spent doing school work online. I know when I was a teen I did not interact with other kids every day because:
1. I was a bit of an outcast.
2. We didn’t live close to other kids.
3. I got home from school around 5pm and still had homework to do and dinner to eat (this would have taken up at least an hour of my 4-5 hours available for the internet that day)My primary source of interaction with other kids was when I would go to a friend’s house on the weekend to play D&D, but I had initially been forbidden to play that because it was “satanic” and then had to hide it. Reminds me a lot of what’s going on now with the age gating for modern teens.
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RE: https://eupolicy.social/@hpod16/117286020053320946
It’s interesting that people who support age verification have to ask what the problem is. As if it was a big mystery.
Asking people to reveal their personally identification so they can use the internet isn’t a problem that should need to be explained. But since you asked…
1. Our data can not be protected online. Especially by every random person who has the means to buy a domain and pay for hosting.
2. Forcing identification is a barrier for many people. That’s exclusion. And in many cases ableism.
3. Age verification won’t keep kids from using technology. If their parents are that disconnected, they’ll help them through the gates and move on. Restricting access creates a hurdle, not an impasse.
4. Age verification puts the onus on people using the web instead of the people make parts of it horrible. We are victims of nefarious systems. We are not the problem. The systems are. That should be the focus of solutions.
@markwyner
Also, technically, age restriction could be implemented simply as a setting on the consumer's device set by the admin aka parent.
So that the only data saved would be "is allowed to watch stuff up to 12 years" without any name, photo, biometrics or birthday. -
@markwyner we use age verification for loads of things already, why were people not up in arms about that. Buying cigarettes? Driving cars? Getting bank account? Voting? All your points apply to those. Why should we be challenged on any of those.
@romli @markwyner Because all of those are SIGNIFICANTLY different.
Buying cigarettes: kids don't benefit from cigarettes. And for the adults who want them then it's a one-off check in person at the shop and you're done. Nothing tracked.
Driving cars: the driving license database is a trusted, well secured government database that isn't sold for tracking people. And you're proving you can be trusted with a heavy object that's dangerous to others.
Getting a bank account: Banks are in the business of keeping things secure! And the identity check is about preventing criminality and money laundering under false identities.
Voting: as with driving licenses, it's a trusted, well-secured government database. As with banking, it's preventing criminality and voter fraud.
Meanwhile, social media age checks are run by untrustworthy and unregulated identity providers who retain data even when they say they won't, who can track which sites you use and sell it with a perfect link to your identity, and who have repeatedly leaked data. All to delay the problems associated with social media until people turn 18 rather than actually fixing them.
It's a bullshit law focusing on the wrong solution to a wider problem, because screaming "think of the children" works worryingly well in modern politics.
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RE: https://eupolicy.social/@hpod16/117286020053320946
It’s interesting that people who support age verification have to ask what the problem is. As if it was a big mystery.
Asking people to reveal their personally identification so they can use the internet isn’t a problem that should need to be explained. But since you asked…
1. Our data can not be protected online. Especially by every random person who has the means to buy a domain and pay for hosting.
2. Forcing identification is a barrier for many people. That’s exclusion. And in many cases ableism.
3. Age verification won’t keep kids from using technology. If their parents are that disconnected, they’ll help them through the gates and move on. Restricting access creates a hurdle, not an impasse.
4. Age verification puts the onus on people using the web instead of the people make parts of it horrible. We are victims of nefarious systems. We are not the problem. The systems are. That should be the focus of solutions.
@markwyner
5. Every politician puts their communication of the worst of those horrible web sites (i.e. Shitter). If you want to raise a generation with political apathy and zero interest in democracy, banning them from following politics is how you do it.Xi would be proud. Is that where they got the idea?
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RE: https://eupolicy.social/@hpod16/117286020053320946
It’s interesting that people who support age verification have to ask what the problem is. As if it was a big mystery.
Asking people to reveal their personally identification so they can use the internet isn’t a problem that should need to be explained. But since you asked…
1. Our data can not be protected online. Especially by every random person who has the means to buy a domain and pay for hosting.
2. Forcing identification is a barrier for many people. That’s exclusion. And in many cases ableism.
3. Age verification won’t keep kids from using technology. If their parents are that disconnected, they’ll help them through the gates and move on. Restricting access creates a hurdle, not an impasse.
4. Age verification puts the onus on people using the web instead of the people make parts of it horrible. We are victims of nefarious systems. We are not the problem. The systems are. That should be the focus of solutions.
@markwyner I really don't see any connection between your point and the post you quoted. "There is a real, serious problem" and "age verification is not a viable solution" are not incompatible positions.
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RE: https://eupolicy.social/@hpod16/117286020053320946
It’s interesting that people who support age verification have to ask what the problem is. As if it was a big mystery.
Asking people to reveal their personally identification so they can use the internet isn’t a problem that should need to be explained. But since you asked…
1. Our data can not be protected online. Especially by every random person who has the means to buy a domain and pay for hosting.
2. Forcing identification is a barrier for many people. That’s exclusion. And in many cases ableism.
3. Age verification won’t keep kids from using technology. If their parents are that disconnected, they’ll help them through the gates and move on. Restricting access creates a hurdle, not an impasse.
4. Age verification puts the onus on people using the web instead of the people make parts of it horrible. We are victims of nefarious systems. We are not the problem. The systems are. That should be the focus of solutions.
@markwyner People like that you quoted (and most importantly, people who push shit like that into legislation) undermine our very last remnants of faith in a humanity as a whole.
