Are social networks unhealthy for minors?
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@evan One of those extremely loaded questions where I'd normally say "Technically yes but there's A LOT more nuance" to most people, but "No and I hope someone spits in your coffee, good day sir" to think tanks and lobby groups.
Shortest pitch I can throw? On one hand, we NEED spaces for youth to interact with, well, anyone. On the other, profit-minded, rage-baiting, shorthand media (or even just... shorthand media like here, albeit better) isn't the right tool IMO.
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@evan I also think they are unhealthy for adults and should be regulated to remove all targeted adds and user data collection. Also platforms should not pay content creators directly.
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@evan @cubicgarden *yes but* most social media platforms are also unhealthy for adults.
Social networks are offline too.
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@evan I don't know. I think they certainly can be, but it depends on the age of the kid and their situation. There are queer kids with bigoted parents who can only find support online. There are also kids who get harassed and bullied to the point where they harm themselves. I don't think there's an easy answer.
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@resl You don't see how I conflate the two. They are separate in my mind, to the best of my own knowledge. What I do see is that the culture and norms many of us have learned on the commecial platforms, and that are perhaps even independent of them, like posing, self-obsessive thought, lots of anxious mind-reading of others and popularity contests, they exist here too. @evan
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Ever have a glass of wine?
Alcohol is toxic to every human tissue, but we put in place precautions... We rigorously regulate the production, distribution, sale, and consumption of it. We have medical interventions for its abuse. We attach social stigma to those who purposefully abuse it.
We do ZERO of those things to social media, despite knowing that, especially in terms of mental health it can be as bad or worse for especially young people than alcohol and or drug abuse.....
So, yeah. Sometimes people choose to do things that are "bad" for them, but they can make informed decisions.
Social Media has suffered few if any of the oversights, restrictions, repercussions, as other harmful activities.
It's well past time we started.
@ClintonAnderson Thank you, that builds nicely on where I was going. I agree it would be helpful to have more support to use any social network appropriately. @evan
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Thanks to everyone for your replies here.
I think social network platforms are good for people. Connecting with people you care about, meeting new people, expressing your ideas and your creativity, sharing your daily life, learning about the vast diversity of human experience -- these are all positive things that social networking platforms can bring us.
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Thanks to everyone for your replies here.
I think social network platforms are good for people. Connecting with people you care about, meeting new people, expressing your ideas and your creativity, sharing your daily life, learning about the vast diversity of human experience -- these are all positive things that social networking platforms can bring us.
I don't think minors are excepted from this. I think that children benefit from seeing and being seen and learning how to represent the self. Teens are even more in need of exploring culture and subculture, connecting with people well outside their immediate circle who share their interests or problems, making friends, having romances.
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I don't think minors are excepted from this. I think that children benefit from seeing and being seen and learning how to represent the self. Teens are even more in need of exploring culture and subculture, connecting with people well outside their immediate circle who share their interests or problems, making friends, having romances.
I also don't think we've found the perfect balance between the privacy settings we need to protect kids from predators of all kinds, and the wide social horizons needed to let kids and especially teens discover diverse kinds of people and find out who they really are. There might not be a one-size-fits-all set of rules that works for every culture, every family, and every kid.
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I also don't think we've found the perfect balance between the privacy settings we need to protect kids from predators of all kinds, and the wide social horizons needed to let kids and especially teens discover diverse kinds of people and find out who they really are. There might not be a one-size-fits-all set of rules that works for every culture, every family, and every kid.
@evan I think there are social networks and there are predatory social networks.
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I also don't think we've found the perfect balance between the privacy settings we need to protect kids from predators of all kinds, and the wide social horizons needed to let kids and especially teens discover diverse kinds of people and find out who they really are. There might not be a one-size-fits-all set of rules that works for every culture, every family, and every kid.
I realize that this is my answer to everything, but: I think there's value in experimenting with different options, providing a full menu of different platforms, and letting parents, kids and teens make their own choices about what works for them.
Federation lets users choose the parameters that work for them -- who can find you, who can follow, who can message, what appears in the feed -- and still stay connected to the wider social web. Your rules of engagement shouldn't cut you off.
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I realize that this is my answer to everything, but: I think there's value in experimenting with different options, providing a full menu of different platforms, and letting parents, kids and teens make their own choices about what works for them.
Federation lets users choose the parameters that work for them -- who can find you, who can follow, who can message, what appears in the feed -- and still stay connected to the wider social web. Your rules of engagement shouldn't cut you off.
I recognize that there's harm in social network platforms. Time you spend behind a screen is time that you're not engaging with people directly in real life, or out in the world exploring, or exercising, or being in nature. People can be terrible to one another, and it can crush your feelings for days. But I also think that it's possible, if we do it right, to have the positives of self-expression, learning and connection outweigh the negatives of distraction and conflict.
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@ClintonAnderson Thank you, that builds nicely on where I was going. I agree it would be helpful to have more support to use any social network appropriately. @evan
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I recognize that there's harm in social network platforms. Time you spend behind a screen is time that you're not engaging with people directly in real life, or out in the world exploring, or exercising, or being in nature. People can be terrible to one another, and it can crush your feelings for days. But I also think that it's possible, if we do it right, to have the positives of self-expression, learning and connection outweigh the negatives of distraction and conflict.
I wouldn't have made it my my life's work to making interconnected social networking platforms if I didn't think they could be a net positive influence on people and on the world.
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I wouldn't have made it my my life's work to making interconnected social networking platforms if I didn't think they could be a net positive influence on people and on the world.
Anyway, thanks to everyone who responded and replied. My answer is "no, but". I don't agree with everyone, but I appreciate the conversation.
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@renata I agree 100% and this does not exclude the fediverse.
For me it is very ambivalent. I enjoy it being able to discuss with people like you or @evan - this only happens with social media (including forums or mailing lists). But at the same time there is that FOMO and the feeling that I need to perform and post smart answers. -
@evan What I meant to say is that I think the way social networks work at the moment are overall unhealthy for us. The reason I'm here is that I see this as the most likely place to improve the situation.
@malte But do you think this social platform is net unhealthy for people as it is right now?
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@evan its not so much the social networks that are the issue, but the platform and it's algorithms. Those drive the real issue.
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@resl You don't see how I conflate the two. They are separate in my mind, to the best of my own knowledge. What I do see is that the culture and norms many of us have learned on the commecial platforms, and that are perhaps even independent of them, like posing, self-obsessive thought, lots of anxious mind-reading of others and popularity contests, they exist here too. @evan
@malte @evan It was a grossly abstract question in the first place: "Are networks are unhealthy for minors?" It almost seems to intend to get people talking past each other.
I just wanted to point out the definition of
'social network' that might not come to most of us automatically but might have inspired the poll's terms. -
@resl You don't see how I conflate the two. They are separate in my mind, to the best of my own knowledge. What I do see is that the culture and norms many of us have learned on the commecial platforms, and that are perhaps even independent of them, like posing, self-obsessive thought, lots of anxious mind-reading of others and popularity contests, they exist here too. @evan
I think that to attribute social ills to social networks is like attributing pain to one's own body.
I think the question of whether social networks are unhealthy or not tricks us into thinking more generally about the issue than could possibly be useful for us in trying to actually deal with the issue (of minors' "healthiness" or what is "unhealthy" for kids).
