Just had to deal with a bunch of wind turbine conspiracy theories at #StateOfEU, this polite political event I’m at in Brussels.
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@jon Follow the money. The EU has always been utterly corrupt and full of useless political types. UK lobbying isn't pretty but dealing with the EU in the past on open source lobbying was an utter cess pit.
@etchedpixels I’ve got no other choice. The area I work in - rail policy - is largely decided here.
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@jon Follow the money. The EU has always been utterly corrupt and full of useless political types. UK lobbying isn't pretty but dealing with the EU in the past on open source lobbying was an utter cess pit.
@etchedpixels @jon That's not been our experience at @osi @policy . We were very well received by the Commission on CRA topics once they had figured OSI is a charity not a lobbyist, and we were able to get things greatly improved by engaging.
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Turbines kill birds. They don’t you jerk. Your cat is more a danger to birds. #StateOfEU
Edit: for clarification - the number isn’t zero. But it’s not a significant issue.
@jon i hate that the bird argument is a real thing. it's such a good telling how deep we are standing in the crap
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Just had to deal with a bunch of wind turbine conspiracy theories at #StateOfEU, this polite political event I’m at in Brussels. Damn we‘re fucked. Fucked. Our notional political elite is believing in utter complete garbage.
@jon There's a far worse event of political leaders disconnected from reality. It's when they perfectly represent who elected them first.
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Turbines kill birds. They don’t you jerk. Your cat is more a danger to birds. #StateOfEU
Edit: for clarification - the number isn’t zero. But it’s not a significant issue.
@jon I mean, did they even think for a split second about how much nuclear, coal, gas etc kill tons of life?
What a clown show.It's the same reasoning as always:
An improvement that brings a dozen benefits comes with a teeny tiny cost, usually negligible, and then they're against it, given they got to enjoy a nice dinner.
Just like in the US and anywhere else.Offer swapping some airplanes that also endanger birds plus way more for some wind turbines.
Of course they won't accept it. -
@jon i hate that the bird argument is a real thing. it's such a good telling how deep we are standing in the crap
@nikolar Right. Exactly this. It’s so obviously stupid as an argument but here I am with university educated polite society and I’m confronted with it. As if it’s an acceptable argument!
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Turbines kill birds. They don’t you jerk. Your cat is more a danger to birds. #StateOfEU
Edit: for clarification - the number isn’t zero. But it’s not a significant issue.
@jon They did an experiment where they painted (one of?) the blades in black to make it more visible, which reduced the number of dead birds by 70%.
https://www.intelligentliving.co/norway-bird-deaths-black-turbine-blades/
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And there was another line. “It’s rich landowners in Brandenburg taking the subsidies from the state to build wind turbines”. This is an equality / distribution issue, not an energy issue! Think of the opposite: “we shouldn’t build turbines there because the land owners are rich!” Errrr… #StateOfEU
@jon I suggest building a nuclear power plant in his garden instead. To get closer to the people, you know.
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@jon What I always feel gets missed out on the subject of bird deaths is: nothing has a bigger overall, long-term impact on bird populations than habitat loss.
And what makes habitat loss a much, much more pressing concern? Climate change.
Over a longer period, turbines can save the lives of countless birds.
Why not all of the above?
Turbines *could* save the lives of countless birds, but only in a society that values non-human life the same as human life (or even just convenience).
So, in the mean time, we will kill birds by all available methods: by destroying their habitats with roads, pavements, expanding farm land, pesticides, electric transmission lines, and yes, even by owning cats.
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“And those turbines you see in Brandenburg approaching Berlin are so UGLY!” he went on. Climate change, that’s ugly. #StateOfEU
@jon they are talking about these wind turbines, right? RIGHT???
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This is the ethical point here: NOTHING is more important than combatting climate change. Nothing. Without a liveable planet nothing else works. I’ll have a debate about the numbers, and how to decarbonise. But I’ve no time for whataboutism, nimbyism or conspiracy theories. #StateOfEU
Yep, but that's the thing: many people, politicians and citizens alike, disagree with you on that point! That's democracy for you.
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Just had to deal with a bunch of wind turbine conspiracy theories at #StateOfEU, this polite political event I’m at in Brussels. Damn we‘re fucked. Fucked. Our notional political elite is believing in utter complete garbage.
@jon Every conspiracy theorist is somewhere on the vertical axis, moving upwards and adding more.
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This is the ethical point here: NOTHING is more important than combatting climate change. Nothing. Without a liveable planet nothing else works. I’ll have a debate about the numbers, and how to decarbonise. But I’ve no time for whataboutism, nimbyism or conspiracy theories. #StateOfEU
@jon respectfully, if we somehow resolve/address our climate change problem, but not our #racism problem, that's a fail. BOTH are peer priorities a la #ClimateJustice.
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Just had to deal with a bunch of wind turbine conspiracy theories at #StateOfEU, this polite political event I’m at in Brussels. Damn we‘re fucked. Fucked. Our notional political elite is believing in utter complete garbage.
@jon NdGT lays out the problem.
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Just had to deal with a bunch of wind turbine conspiracy theories at #StateOfEU, this polite political event I’m at in Brussels. Damn we‘re fucked. Fucked. Our notional political elite is believing in utter complete garbage.
@jon people will say anything for oil money.
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@jon What I always feel gets missed out on the subject of bird deaths is: nothing has a bigger overall, long-term impact on bird populations than habitat loss.
And what makes habitat loss a much, much more pressing concern? Climate change.
Over a longer period, turbines can save the lives of countless birds.
@RolloTreadway @jon just wait til people find out about the wildlife destruction caused by cars...
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“And those turbines you see in Brandenburg approaching Berlin are so UGLY!” he went on. Climate change, that’s ugly. #StateOfEU
@jon Living in Czech Republic I don't cease to be amazed by how brainwashed against wind turbines the people are here. Even biologists working with Ecology support this nonsense. Both this "ugly/changes the landscape" stuff, and the birds. What is worse is that here they're all in on nuclear, believe it's all they'll ever need. I think there is a point to be made that disabling already installed nuclear was a bad move in Germany, but building new will never be worth it compared to alternatives.
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This is the ethical point here: NOTHING is more important than combatting climate change. Nothing. Without a liveable planet nothing else works. I’ll have a debate about the numbers, and how to decarbonise. But I’ve no time for whataboutism, nimbyism or conspiracy theories. #StateOfEU
@jon That's a statement of personal values that is not universal. There are things more important than personal survival and there are things more important than cultural or even species survival. -
Just had to deal with a bunch of wind turbine conspiracy theories at #StateOfEU, this polite political event I’m at in Brussels. Damn we‘re fucked. Fucked. Our notional political elite is believing in utter complete garbage.
@jon Let me guess: Cherry picked examples of their "dangers" and for each of these scenarios they're not even in the top 50 of worst offenders.
- Dead birds? Guess we should ban outdoor cats.
- Microplastics? Let me tell you a story about tire and brake abrasions.
- Infrasound emissions? Again, have you heard about cars, heavy industry or data centers?!
- Space requirements? Again... Cars?
