“nothing that can be done about this” says guy who caused this and derogatorily called anyone who doesn’t like it an SJW
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“nothing that can be done about this” says guy who caused this and derogatorily called anyone who doesn’t like it an SJW
@zzt The thing is, *even if* you think that this is the future of kernel development, you could still say “let’s not put as many changes as this into RC6, but keep them for the development version coming up, so we have time for any bugs to get shaken out”.
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@zzt The thing is, *even if* you think that this is the future of kernel development, you could still say “let’s not put as many changes as this into RC6, but keep them for the development version coming up, so we have time for any bugs to get shaken out”.
@skington what if instead you surrender all decision-making and accountability to a machine that’s horrible at everything but especially horrible at systems code
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oh hey, some of you have seen this before but look at torvalds’ prior work before shoving LLMs forcefully into the workflow of the kernel:
https://infosec.exchange/@atax1a/115867354992858960
it’s a fucking Python data visualizer tool that you or I could have written in a day, but torvalds decided Python wasn’t a worthy language for him to learn so he used an LLM instead
and this wasn’t his first time fucking with the things, but this was his last project before he decided to go all-in
somehow an LLM doing a shit Python data visualization tool for one of his hobbies convinced him that LLMs must be really good at the type of low-level C the kernel is written in
that’s all the evidence this mid little fucker needed to assert it as fact
@zzt It really needs to be studied how people can just get oneshot from using these things even once.
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@skington what if instead you surrender all decision-making and accountability to a machine that’s horrible at everything but especially horrible at systems code
@zzt I suppose my point is that Linus Torvalds isn’t even being a “centrist” about this, which would be to say “AI is the future, but we’re in a code freeze / learning how to use the tools properly, so let’s not merge all these PRs to main”. The rush to go ahead with LLM contributions goes completely against normal project management practices, apparently solely so people can say “the latest *shipping* Linux kernel is AI now”.
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“nothing that can be done about this” says guy who caused this and derogatorily called anyone who doesn’t like it an SJW
Great, I'll get right on moving to a new system my hardware doesn't support, my games don't support, that I'd have to learn, and that probably is also vibecoded too. I fucking hate this timeline so much.
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@zzt He was *always* a bit of an asshole, and now it shows, and I'm going to rub it in just a little bit on people who kept insisting that "BDFL is a good thing".
@promovicz @zzt Linus just forgot about the 'B'.
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@zzt So, if I am reading you correctly, it's possible but would be a major effort requiring a team and resources. A couple of hardcore coders couldn't do this on their own.
@galacticstone it would take more than one team and more than one project or company that has kernel contributing developers. Much of the hardware is in development years ahead of time and the developers can be dealing with alpha parts straight from the fabrication lab. If it's something like a new laptop it has to bounce around multiple teams who work with the manufacturer or OEM. Parts can also be combined in various configurations as revisions come in and then it recirculates through- @zzt
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@galacticstone it would take more than one team and more than one project or company that has kernel contributing developers. Much of the hardware is in development years ahead of time and the developers can be dealing with alpha parts straight from the fabrication lab. If it's something like a new laptop it has to bounce around multiple teams who work with the manufacturer or OEM. Parts can also be combined in various configurations as revisions come in and then it recirculates through- @zzt
@galacticstone - the developers again. Some things don't actually make it to retail release. But you are dealing with a mix like consumer-target laptops, enterprise servers, workstations, standalone parts to combine them with like gpus or ram, etc.
Some things go faster if it's an incremental hardware refresh but when something is new it usually takes a while.
(edit to add- I used to work at SUSE in hardware a few years ago and from what I know the process should still be the same).
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@zzt I suppose my point is that Linus Torvalds isn’t even being a “centrist” about this, which would be to say “AI is the future, but we’re in a code freeze / learning how to use the tools properly, so let’s not merge all these PRs to main”. The rush to go ahead with LLM contributions goes completely against normal project management practices, apparently solely so people can say “the latest *shipping* Linux kernel is AI now”.
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@zzt I suppose my point is that Linus Torvalds isn’t even being a “centrist” about this, which would be to say “AI is the future, but we’re in a code freeze / learning how to use the tools properly, so let’s not merge all these PRs to main”. The rush to go ahead with LLM contributions goes completely against normal project management practices, apparently solely so people can say “the latest *shipping* Linux kernel is AI now”.
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@zzt So, if I am reading you correctly, it's possible but would be a major effort requiring a team and resources. A couple of hardcore coders couldn't do this on their own.
@galacticstone @zzt maybe they could use Claude to help.
*cries into his pillow a bit*
(Yes, this is sarcasm.) -
@zzt Bjarne Stroustrup went on record as saying he thought LLMs would not be of much help for C++. https://youtu.be/U46fJ2bJ-co?t=5331
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@gooba42 @zzt Microkernels got a bad reputation by the microkernel folks doing them backwards. Putting sketchy hardware io stuff that actually needs to be isolated into the real core kernel but syscalls into unusably slow and misbehaving RPC Rube Goldberg machines.
A good microkernel is at its core the resource & state management (memory, scheduling entities, file handles, etc.) needed to implement POSIX with hardware drivers and filesystems in isolated userspace tasks.
@dalias @gooba42 @zzt Which seems to mirror the typical underlying architecture (CPU+Memory as core, rest being external, at least outside of MCUs/SoCs) + system constraints (like file handles managed in userspace sounds unnecessarily messy to deal with).
But well I've barely touched kernel-layer things so not sure how well that comparison holds up. -
“nothing that can be done about this” says guy who caused this and derogatorily called anyone who doesn’t like it an SJW
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“nothing that can be done about this” says guy who caused this and derogatorily called anyone who doesn’t like it an SJW
before we could all imagine some nerd wrote each line and signed off on it.
blame hallucination 12,546.0003nobody knows what all is in it. passes benchmarks. ship it.
#kernel-is-ai-now #fuck-em-feed-em-fishheads -
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