Yesterday, over 500,000 people marched in Central London in what was the biggest defiance of far right politics
-
@Geri ... organisers claim
The Met claims 50,000, so the number is probably somewhere in the middle
@budududuroiu @Geri That's not necessarily true (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation). You'd want to take into account the track records of the various parties involved (e.g. for systematic error, and partisan reporting bias), look into the methodology used to produce the estimates, and perhaps try your hand at producing your own estimate.
As Wikipedia says: if one party claims the sky is blue, and another party claims it's yellow, that doesn't mean the sky is "probably a shade of green".
-
@budududuroiu @Geri That's not necessarily true (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation). You'd want to take into account the track records of the various parties involved (e.g. for systematic error, and partisan reporting bias), look into the methodology used to produce the estimates, and perhaps try your hand at producing your own estimate.
As Wikipedia says: if one party claims the sky is blue, and another party claims it's yellow, that doesn't mean the sky is "probably a shade of green".
@wizzwizz4 @Geri my methodology is simple, I use the Metallica method.
I look at the Moscow 1991 Metallica concert (which was estimated at around 1.6 million attendees on an airfield), and compare
Is it likely that the picture on the left from the Together Alliance protest shows a crowd 1/3rd the size of the crowd on the right? Unlikely.
Edit: it's not that I want to pour cold water on Together Alliance, but I also realise they have partisan reasons for inflating the number of attendees
-
@wizzwizz4 @Geri my methodology is simple, I use the Metallica method.
I look at the Moscow 1991 Metallica concert (which was estimated at around 1.6 million attendees on an airfield), and compare
Is it likely that the picture on the left from the Together Alliance protest shows a crowd 1/3rd the size of the crowd on the right? Unlikely.
Edit: it's not that I want to pour cold water on Together Alliance, but I also realise they have partisan reasons for inflating the number of attendees
@budududuroiu @Geri That's a good method! However, the people in the picture on the left are largely confined to a road, which stretches out of frame on both sides; you'd also want to take into account how much of the road is occupied when making your estimate. Is there any way to get an idea of that?
But yeah: the Together Alliance want their (reported) crowd sizes to be bigger than the (reported) crowd sizes in the far-right rallies, so there's motive. (The Met also has motive.)
-
@Geri ... organisers claim
The Met claims 50,000, so the number is probably somewhere in the middle
@budududuroiu were you there?
I have attended numerous marches in London xx
-
@budududuroiu were you there?
I have attended numerous marches in London xx
@Geri why does that matter? I've been to Glasto and there's no way I could tell you how many people are in attendance at whatever stage I'm at at the time
-
@LaD_Hallo @TCatInReality look at the bias in this
The 4th paragraph is bold text and talks about 100,000 marchers
Yesterday's march is described as tens of 1,000s
-
@budududuroiu @Geri That's a good method! However, the people in the picture on the left are largely confined to a road, which stretches out of frame on both sides; you'd also want to take into account how much of the road is occupied when making your estimate. Is there any way to get an idea of that?
But yeah: the Together Alliance want their (reported) crowd sizes to be bigger than the (reported) crowd sizes in the far-right rallies, so there's motive. (The Met also has motive.)
@wizzwizz4 @Geri yeah crowd estimation is hard, I think it's an own goal when you boast numbers that don't seem plausible. It was easy to mock Tommy Robinson's 3 million crowd size at his protests
-
Yesterday, over 500,000 people marched in Central London in what was the biggest defiance of far right politics
You will hear all most next to nothing about this in the MSM
#alltogethermarch
28 03 26@Geri I did actually hear about it on BBC radio 2.
-
@wizzwizz4 @Geri yeah crowd estimation is hard, I think it's an own goal when you boast numbers that don't seem plausible. It was easy to mock Tommy Robinson's 3 million crowd size at his protests
@budududuroiu @wizzwizz4 being there you can get an understanding of size because of how slowly it moves xx
-
@Geri why does that matter? I've been to Glasto and there's no way I could tell you how many people are in attendance at whatever stage I'm at at the time
@budududuroiu you get an understanding of size if you are present rather than just watching on a TV
BTW the Daily Mirror are leading with 500 K
-
@wizzwizz4 @Geri yeah crowd estimation is hard, I think it's an own goal when you boast numbers that don't seem plausible. It was easy to mock Tommy Robinson's 3 million crowd size at his protests
@budududuroiu @wizzwizz4 3 million is obviously implausible when the Stop the War March before Iraq was considered to be the biggest protest
Feb 15, 2003 Stop the War (Iraq War) 1 - 2 Million
Mar 23, 2019 Put it to the People (Brexit) 1 Million
Oct 19, 2019 Let Us Be Heard (Brexit) 1 Million
Nov 11, 2023 National March for Palestine 800,000
Oct 11, 2025 National March for Palestine 600,000 -
@budududuroiu @wizzwizz4 being there you can get an understanding of size because of how slowly it moves xx
@Geri @budududuroiu @wizzwizz4
I... am I the only one who can see that both the angle and distance of the perspective of these two pictures is *wildly* different? Like, to the point where comparing them seems...worthless?
-
Yesterday, over 500,000 people marched in Central London in what was the biggest defiance of far right politics
You will hear all most next to nothing about this in the MSM
#alltogethermarch
28 03 26They media is also continuing the op that if people vote for Greens they're gonna get Reform, and that "right wing movements are surging everywhere" and that "anti-immigrant sentiment is universal", all of which are refuted by literally every material measure of politics in the West right now.
They just can't, for the life of them, talk about "leftism" being popular, because that would violate every tenet of their ideology.
-
Yesterday, over 500,000 people marched in Central London in what was the biggest defiance of far right politics
You will hear all most next to nothing about this in the MSM
#alltogethermarch
28 03 26@Geri
Absolutely. I had to really search hard for coverage yesterday. And I don't think it was because I was USian. It looked like the UK MSM downplayed it, too. The Met tried hard to undecount the crowd and they directly antagonized PA so they could make arrests and justify their characterization of the organization.I also think that on *both* sides of the Pond, we need a firm rally cry that is easy to remember and covers what it is we are trying to change. France had Liberty, Equality, Fraternity. We need something like that. I am not sure No Kings, No Tyrants, or Hands Off are quite right. And with the London march (fantastic!) "Together Alliance" could use a little workshopping, too.
People smarter than I am ought to be able to come up with something. I know the Far Right is Way Wrong, but I'm not sure how to express that where it's catchy enough. Branding seems like a small thing, but in this case, I think it could really help. How do we get the fight vs. Fascism and Greed boiled down to something simple?
-
Yesterday, over 500,000 people marched in Central London in what was the biggest defiance of far right politics
You will hear all most next to nothing about this in the MSM
#alltogethermarch
28 03 26@Geri
So the event in England isn't called No Kings? -
@LaD_Hallo @TCatInReality look at the bias in this
The 4th paragraph is bold text and talks about 100,000 marchers
Yesterday's march is described as tens of 1,000s
@Geri @TCatInReality Ok, moving the goalposts, I get it. The BBC has high standards in reporting and is compared to many private news outfits, relatively independent. I think we can be happy here in Europe that we still have public broadcasters.
-
@Geri
So the event in England isn't called No Kings?@notyourfanboy @Geri Ha! A bit late for that...
-
@Geri @budududuroiu @wizzwizz4
I... am I the only one who can see that both the angle and distance of the perspective of these two pictures is *wildly* different? Like, to the point where comparing them seems...worthless?
@johnzajac @Geri @wizzwizz4 why? It's a suggestion of scale, not a SI unit of measurement
-
@notyourfanboy @Geri Ha! A bit late for that...
-
J jwcph@helvede.net shared this topic
