How much time per month should an unpaid volunteer maintainer dedicate to an Open Source project?
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@evan That's ... a different question? They've got no obligations to me.
I could maintain it or contribute to it myself, pick something else, pay someone ...
But there's no "should".
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@troglobit @preinheimer @joergi because I like thinking about hard topics. You don't have to, though!
@evan you’re going about it the wrong way, which should be apparent by the responses you get. Chill or be honest and upfront about your agenda. You’re just making people feel bad about their life choices and you are not helping.
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@tony so, how much time do you think it takes for maintainers to keep software in a state where it still works for you?
@evan @tony That's yet another question though?
How much effort a given piece of software requires to stay functional in a changing world is very varied.
I have a tiny C mail delivery agent I wrote for myself in 1997 and last touched in 1998. It's still working perfectly fine locally. (I had to recompile it once.)
Compare with a project like Home Assistant, where I really couldn't guess how much effort that must be.
I'd expect a few hours per month for an average project.
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@evan
for me, the main problem on many (smaller) open-source projects is, that there is only ONE maintainer.
there should be a team.the bigger the project, the more user it uses, the better should be the support.
And: good support needs normally a team. -
@evan However much as they feel like and healthily can. Unpaid volunteers owe nothing to noone.
@shtrom so, if it's not because they owe somebody something, why do volunteer maintainers do the work in the first place? And if they do have a goal, how much time do they have to put in to reach it? Are there different amounts of time for different goals?
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@tony so, how much time do you think it takes for maintainers to keep software in a state where it still works for you?
@evan How long is a piece of string? I've worked on stuff that I could poke once a month to see if anyone had any issues.. Big projects are sometimes run like commercial entities with multiple maintainers. And all points in between.
But they're not maintaining software in a state where it works for me.. it's not about me.. They're doing it because they want to, and I (and many others) happen to benefit from that.
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@evan @tony That's yet another question though?
How much effort a given piece of software requires to stay functional in a changing world is very varied.
I have a tiny C mail delivery agent I wrote for myself in 1997 and last touched in 1998. It's still working perfectly fine locally. (I had to recompile it once.)
Compare with a project like Home Assistant, where I really couldn't guess how much effort that must be.
I'd expect a few hours per month for an average project.
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@evan Well, if that's the standard for what "should" means in the original question, then yes, exactly however much they feel like:
Here, “should” means the extent to which actions are good for the actor mentally and physically, [...]
That's all I expect from unpaid people who've made no commitment to me. Open Source is big on the "no warranty" part.
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@evan @joergi @preinheimer huge +1 on that. Maintainers of open source softwares don't owe anything to anyone.
@dannycolin
yes - and no.if you are the programmer of CURL where the complete internet relies on, or some similar project, you have a responsibility - but tbh, something like that should not be unpaid. so the problem is somewhere else tbh
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@evan How long is a piece of string? I've worked on stuff that I could poke once a month to see if anyone had any issues.. Big projects are sometimes run like commercial entities with multiple maintainers. And all points in between.
But they're not maintaining software in a state where it works for me.. it's not about me.. They're doing it because they want to, and I (and many others) happen to benefit from that.
@tony why do they want to? At least in part for it to be useful, for at least some developers, right?
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@dannycolin
yes - and no.if you are the programmer of CURL where the complete internet relies on, or some similar project, you have a responsibility - but tbh, something like that should not be unpaid. so the problem is somewhere else tbh
@joergi @dannycolin @preinheimer I know that `npm` has a feature where you can mark a package as deprecated or unmaintained. I think there are other systems for doing this.
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@evan You didn't say "what are your conditions to use software", you said "how many unpaid volunteer hours should there be". There is software with those problems with thousands of hours of investment, there is also software without those issues with very little.
I don't "owe" the project usage, and the maintainers don't "owe" the project maintenance hours.
@malwareminigun the question is, how much is "very little"?
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@malwareminigun the question is, how much is "very little"?
@evan Unknowable. Depends entirely on what the specific thing is.
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@evan as much as they want, they're unpaid.
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@preinheimer @joergi so, there's no minimum amount of time where you'd worry that the project is unmaintained or under-maintained?
The health of the project is really a separate question. If you don't trust it, that's YOUR problem.
Either you offer to pay them
or you... ahem... fork off. 
Free software is the proverbial gift horse. You want to look at the teeth, you need to pony up the cash.
IMHO. 🤨
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@evan SHOULD is a really heavy word, especially around “unpaid”.
I want it to be easy and possible for devs to maintain OSS.
I want it to be the norm & a cultural value that it happens.Private companies should sponsor more OSS maintenance to make it easier and more possible for more people.
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@evan Zero to ~150 hours.
Beyond 150ish hours is of course possible, but I believe adequate sleep and rest should be had for obvious reasons.
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@evan as much as they want, they're unpaid.
@ted so, what are the consequences of not putting any time into things?
Is getting paid the only reason people do things?
Why do developers make and maintain Open Source software, anyway?
Could they have different goals? How much time should they put into the project to achieve those different goals?
