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FARVEL BIG TECH
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  3. Just absolutely no regard for security at all.

Just absolutely no regard for security at all.

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  • mhoye@cosocial.caM mhoye@cosocial.ca

    Just absolutely no regard for security at all. None. The entire burden of self-protection shifted to humans alone at their endpoints in systems and communities entirely, foundationally built on mutual trust and trustworthiness.

    delta_vee@mstdn.caD This user is from outside of this forum
    delta_vee@mstdn.caD This user is from outside of this forum
    delta_vee@mstdn.ca
    wrote sidst redigeret af
    #5

    @mhoye This is the real "we're cooked"

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • mhoye@cosocial.caM mhoye@cosocial.ca

      Just absolutely no regard for security at all. None. The entire burden of self-protection shifted to humans alone at their endpoints in systems and communities entirely, foundationally built on mutual trust and trustworthiness.

      hennell@phpc.socialH This user is from outside of this forum
      hennell@phpc.socialH This user is from outside of this forum
      hennell@phpc.social
      wrote sidst redigeret af
      #6

      @mhoye While the whole situation from AI injection down to 'packages can postinstall global packages' is a series of bad to insane decisions, the only thing I really don't understand is ... why install openclaw on machines? Was this trying to achieve something or just show it was possible?

      tiotasram@kolektiva.socialT 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • mhoye@cosocial.caM mhoye@cosocial.ca

        Just absolutely no regard for security at all. None. The entire burden of self-protection shifted to humans alone at their endpoints in systems and communities entirely, foundationally built on mutual trust and trustworthiness.

        endorama@hachyderm.ioE This user is from outside of this forum
        endorama@hachyderm.ioE This user is from outside of this forum
        endorama@hachyderm.io
        wrote sidst redigeret af
        #7

        @mhoye could you share the source? Thanks in advance

        mhoye@cosocial.caM 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • mhoye@cosocial.caM mhoye@cosocial.ca

          Just absolutely no regard for security at all. None. The entire burden of self-protection shifted to humans alone at their endpoints in systems and communities entirely, foundationally built on mutual trust and trustworthiness.

          stepheneb@ruby.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
          stepheneb@ruby.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
          stepheneb@ruby.social
          wrote sidst redigeret af
          #8

          @mhoye

          “the CLI binary (dist/cli.mjs) and all other package contents are identical to the legitimate cline@2.2.3 release.
          A corrected version (2.4.0) was published at 11:23 AM PT and 2.3.0 was deprecated at 11:30 AM PT. The compromised token has been revoked and npm publishing now uses OIDC provenance via GitHub Actions.”

          https://github.com/cline/cline/security/advisories/GHSA-9ppg-jx86-fqw7

          stepheneb@ruby.socialS 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • stepheneb@ruby.socialS stepheneb@ruby.social

            @mhoye

            “the CLI binary (dist/cli.mjs) and all other package contents are identical to the legitimate cline@2.2.3 release.
            A corrected version (2.4.0) was published at 11:23 AM PT and 2.3.0 was deprecated at 11:30 AM PT. The compromised token has been revoked and npm publishing now uses OIDC provenance via GitHub Actions.”

            https://github.com/cline/cline/security/advisories/GHSA-9ppg-jx86-fqw7

            stepheneb@ruby.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
            stepheneb@ruby.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
            stepheneb@ruby.social
            wrote sidst redigeret af
            #9

            @mhoye

            I didn’t know about using “OpenID Connect (OIDC) to authenticate GitHub Actions” and wonder how many surfaces it closes and whether it opens new surfaces?

            https://docs.github.com/en/actions/reference/security/oidc

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • hennell@phpc.socialH hennell@phpc.social

              @mhoye While the whole situation from AI injection down to 'packages can postinstall global packages' is a series of bad to insane decisions, the only thing I really don't understand is ... why install openclaw on machines? Was this trying to achieve something or just show it was possible?

              tiotasram@kolektiva.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
              tiotasram@kolektiva.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
              tiotasram@kolektiva.social
              wrote sidst redigeret af
              #10

              @hennell @mhoye openclaw is effectively a vulnerability/exploit payload itself, which to AI boosters doesn't seem like one.

              hennell@phpc.socialH 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • mhoye@cosocial.caM mhoye@cosocial.ca

                Just absolutely no regard for security at all. None. The entire burden of self-protection shifted to humans alone at their endpoints in systems and communities entirely, foundationally built on mutual trust and trustworthiness.

                mhoye@cosocial.caM This user is from outside of this forum
                mhoye@cosocial.caM This user is from outside of this forum
                mhoye@cosocial.ca
                wrote sidst redigeret af
                #11

                Links:

                https://grith.ai/blog/clinejection-when-your-ai-tool-installs-another

                https://github.com/cline/cline/security/advisories/GHSA-9ppg-jx86-fqw7

                dancast@wandering.shopD 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • endorama@hachyderm.ioE endorama@hachyderm.io

                  @mhoye could you share the source? Thanks in advance

                  mhoye@cosocial.caM This user is from outside of this forum
                  mhoye@cosocial.caM This user is from outside of this forum
                  mhoye@cosocial.ca
                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                  #12

                  @endorama

                  https://grith.ai/blog/clinejection-when-your-ai-tool-installs-another

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • mhoye@cosocial.caM mhoye@cosocial.ca

                    Just absolutely no regard for security at all. None. The entire burden of self-protection shifted to humans alone at their endpoints in systems and communities entirely, foundationally built on mutual trust and trustworthiness.

                    cdamian@rls.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                    cdamian@rls.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                    cdamian@rls.social
                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                    #13

                    @mhoye
                    Could you provide a source URL to this?

                    cdamian@rls.socialC 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • mhoye@cosocial.caM mhoye@cosocial.ca

                      Just absolutely no regard for security at all. None. The entire burden of self-protection shifted to humans alone at their endpoints in systems and communities entirely, foundationally built on mutual trust and trustworthiness.

                      pseudonym@mastodon.onlineP This user is from outside of this forum
                      pseudonym@mastodon.onlineP This user is from outside of this forum
                      pseudonym@mastodon.online
                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                      #14

                      @mhoye

                      #infosec

                      Install attack surface as a service.

                      IASaaS

                      No, swap that...

                      Attack Interface Surface as a Service

                      AISaaS

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • cdamian@rls.socialC cdamian@rls.social

                        @mhoye
                        Could you provide a source URL to this?

                        cdamian@rls.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                        cdamian@rls.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                        cdamian@rls.social
                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                        #15

                        @mhoye
                        Found it
                        https://grith.ai/blog/clinejection-when-your-ai-tool-installs-another

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • pmc@mastodon.ffcentral.netP pmc@mastodon.ffcentral.net

                          @mhoye @cwebber Why the hell does a triage bot have the NPM token in the first place

                          kayohtie@blimps.xyzK This user is from outside of this forum
                          kayohtie@blimps.xyzK This user is from outside of this forum
                          kayohtie@blimps.xyz
                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                          #16

                          @pmc @mhoye @cwebber People granting tokens way too much access because it's easier to check a box for 'all' than it is to drill down and consider specifics needed, frequently.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • mhoye@cosocial.caM mhoye@cosocial.ca

                            Just absolutely no regard for security at all. None. The entire burden of self-protection shifted to humans alone at their endpoints in systems and communities entirely, foundationally built on mutual trust and trustworthiness.

                            401matthall@mastodon.xyz4 This user is from outside of this forum
                            401matthall@mastodon.xyz4 This user is from outside of this forum
                            401matthall@mastodon.xyz
                            wrote sidst redigeret af
                            #17

                            @mhoye

                            FFS. 👀

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • mhoye@cosocial.caM mhoye@cosocial.ca

                              Just absolutely no regard for security at all. None. The entire burden of self-protection shifted to humans alone at their endpoints in systems and communities entirely, foundationally built on mutual trust and trustworthiness.

                              feld@friedcheese.usF This user is from outside of this forum
                              feld@friedcheese.usF This user is from outside of this forum
                              feld@friedcheese.us
                              wrote sidst redigeret af
                              #18
                              @mhoye

                              > developers not working in an isolated environment (zone, vm, jail, etc) and letting their devtools access their whole laptop

                              they deserve it
                              mhoye@cosocial.caM mischievoustomato@tsundere.loveM khleedril@cyberplace.socialK 3 Replies Last reply
                              0
                              • mhoye@cosocial.caM mhoye@cosocial.ca

                                Just absolutely no regard for security at all. None. The entire burden of self-protection shifted to humans alone at their endpoints in systems and communities entirely, foundationally built on mutual trust and trustworthiness.

                                tanepiper@tane.codesT This user is from outside of this forum
                                tanepiper@tane.codesT This user is from outside of this forum
                                tanepiper@tane.codes
                                wrote sidst redigeret af
                                #19

                                @mhoye postinstall was probably the worst thing added to npm - it's been there since the start with absolutely no effort to secure it or remove it

                                mhoye@cosocial.caM 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • feld@friedcheese.usF feld@friedcheese.us
                                  @mhoye

                                  > developers not working in an isolated environment (zone, vm, jail, etc) and letting their devtools access their whole laptop

                                  they deserve it
                                  mhoye@cosocial.caM This user is from outside of this forum
                                  mhoye@cosocial.caM This user is from outside of this forum
                                  mhoye@cosocial.ca
                                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                                  #20

                                  @feld "they deserved it" is a childish, bullshit response to systemic problems.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • feld@friedcheese.usF This user is from outside of this forum
                                    feld@friedcheese.usF This user is from outside of this forum
                                    feld@friedcheese.us
                                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                                    #21
                                    @joe @mhoye well we used to tell people not to run .exe and .scr etc files on Windows or they'd get a trojan/virus.

                                    A lot of what people do these days on MacOS/Linux is pretty damn close to running untrusted code/binaries
                                    sun@shitposter.worldS 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • feld@friedcheese.usF feld@friedcheese.us
                                      @joe @mhoye well we used to tell people not to run .exe and .scr etc files on Windows or they'd get a trojan/virus.

                                      A lot of what people do these days on MacOS/Linux is pretty damn close to running untrusted code/binaries
                                      sun@shitposter.worldS This user is from outside of this forum
                                      sun@shitposter.worldS This user is from outside of this forum
                                      sun@shitposter.world
                                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                                      #22
                                      @feld @joe @mhoye have you actually set it up, it's not easy to get a working but reasonably convenient dev system. I've been trying for a while now
                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • tanepiper@tane.codesT tanepiper@tane.codes

                                        @mhoye postinstall was probably the worst thing added to npm - it's been there since the start with absolutely no effort to secure it or remove it

                                        mhoye@cosocial.caM This user is from outside of this forum
                                        mhoye@cosocial.caM This user is from outside of this forum
                                        mhoye@cosocial.ca
                                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                                        #23

                                        @tanepiper It's been around in the Debian dpkg system for ages, and it's got a lot of utility in that context and definitely works system-wide. But the Debian community doesn't have the NPM "let anyone do anything whatever" ethos, and the versioning systems in that part of the world are much slower and more methodical. You pretty much need to be on Sid and updating every day to get bitten by this in that part of the ecosystem.

                                        tanepiper@tane.codesT 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • feld@friedcheese.usF This user is from outside of this forum
                                          feld@friedcheese.usF This user is from outside of this forum
                                          feld@friedcheese.us
                                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                                          #24
                                          @joe @mhoye you can trust what you get from your OS package manager and not much more.

                                          npm, pip, cargo, hex, gem, etc are the wild west
                                          1 Reply Last reply
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