Musk's Tesla modified contracts with customers -- without the customers' permission -- long after they were signed.

[olle_gladso@mastodon.social]

@dangillmor Contract fraud. Clear and simple.

[bluedot@left-bank.net]

@dangillmor

It's bizarre to me that someone has to "access" the contract online. Instead of, you know, printing it out on paper and filing it somewhere safe.

[nmba@mstdn.ca]

@dangillmor
Same as russia also revising contracts so Wildberries is not liable for lost stock. Contracts and constitutions and toilet paper.

https://mezha.net/eng/bukvy/1649b480_russian_marketplaces_remove/

[aerofreak@hessen.social]

@tknarr

Nah, that's illegal in every aspect.

@dangillmor

[tknarr@mstdn.social]

@aerofreak @dangillmor Can you cite a statute saying that?

[modris@mastodon.ie]

@dangillmor This is why I always keep a printed copy of all contracts, even today.

[benhm3@mastodon.social]

@tknarr @aerofreak @dangillmor

No, they cannot. Credit card companies invented the single-sided contract modification “with notice.” The def’n of “notification” has been slid mercilessly toward obfuscation ever since Billy-boy Gates invented the EULA.

The fine-print trick has peaked.

[punissuer@universeodon.com]

@dangillmor @benroyce And they're far from the only ones. Louis Rossmann has a youtube channel where he regularly exposes how companies do semi- to illegal things to their customers, and a wiki.
https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Post-purchase_EULA_modification

[agitatra@berlin.social]

@tknarr @dangillmor I don't know about the UK or USA, but in Germany it is regarded as fraud. However when no evidence regarding the original contract exists, it might be difficult to prove.

[allkinds@mastodon.social]

@dangillmor
Why would you not print out the contract when signed?
Hard copies are the best backup.

[jordgubben@mastodon.gamedev.place]

@dangillmor How does
it differ from outright fraud?

That’s the neat part. It doesn’t!

[ox1de@cyberplace.social]

@dangillmor laws do not apply to the rich or the so called “money and job makers”, which is complete nonsense

[thezeldazone@mastodon.social]

@dangillmor Is that lega--oh nevermind. Nothing is illegal if you're rich in this stupid place.

[lin11c@toad.social]

@dangillmor
If they do change the contract, you must have the legal right to OPT OUT correct? These are the kind of issues we need the CFPB for. Too bad the Dotard Regime destroyed it. ️

[tommorris@mastodon.social]

@Andii @dangillmor by being a government…?

[joriki@infosec.exchange]

@modris @dangillmor

have you ever successfully used those printouts in a dispute?

[modris@mastodon.ie]

@joriki @dangillmor Not with Tesla of course as I wouldn't have anything Tesla-related. I did have to threaten to use the printed one once so it all worked out.

[gnaddrig@mastodon.social]

@dangillmor @Lazarou
Another reason why it is always a good idea to have contracts on actual paper. No fraud can simply change details on a printed contract you have in your bank or at home.

[aerofreak@hessen.social]

@tknarr
At least in Germany you sign a contract and that contract cannot be changed afterwards by one side only.

@dangillmor

[andii@mas.to]

@tommorris @dangillmor
No. But by ignoring legislation and common law.