Is it okay to beg for money on Mastodon?
-
-
@aral Now, since we agree that identification is essentail to human aid, can we also agree that tag spamming is not a proper use of Mastodon?
Because when I see, say, an African account creating dozens of money request posts each day, tagging as many users as they can fit into each post, I feel they are using Mastodon in a way which is not helpful.
Like everyone else, I have a finite limit to how many people I can support, and this limit is not raised through spam.
2/2
@randahl Yes, it’s a huge issue and one that I’m trying to communicate to the folks in Gaza Verified also. (It’s against our rules and the rules of nearly every instance and it’s not in the long-term interests of anyone.) I recently wrote a lengthy message to send to everyone on Gaza Verified to remind them of this again (the very few who engage in it are also harming everyone else who isn’t) but I also want to make sure I’m not preaching etiquette to people facing literal genocide. So I’m going to read over it again when I have more time but, yes, we must address the issue because, at best, people are going to mute/block (even I’ve muted some accounts because I can’t manage the number of messages) and, at worst, report the accounts and get them suspended, etc.
Going forward, I also feel we might have to remove the verification of the one or two accounts that are most engaged in this after repeated warnings.
And this is also why we created the list at https://gaza-verified.org/donate – so that there would be a fair ordering and a place everyone could promote.
-
@randahl Yes, it’s a huge issue and one that I’m trying to communicate to the folks in Gaza Verified also. (It’s against our rules and the rules of nearly every instance and it’s not in the long-term interests of anyone.) I recently wrote a lengthy message to send to everyone on Gaza Verified to remind them of this again (the very few who engage in it are also harming everyone else who isn’t) but I also want to make sure I’m not preaching etiquette to people facing literal genocide. So I’m going to read over it again when I have more time but, yes, we must address the issue because, at best, people are going to mute/block (even I’ve muted some accounts because I can’t manage the number of messages) and, at worst, report the accounts and get them suspended, etc.
Going forward, I also feel we might have to remove the verification of the one or two accounts that are most engaged in this after repeated warnings.
And this is also why we created the list at https://gaza-verified.org/donate – so that there would be a fair ordering and a place everyone could promote.
@aral great! Glad to hear this challenge is on your radar.
When I get the time, I need to read some more about your verification process.
-
@aral Now, since we agree that identification is essentail to human aid, can we also agree that tag spamming is not a proper use of Mastodon?
Because when I see, say, an African account creating dozens of money request posts each day, tagging as many users as they can fit into each post, I feel they are using Mastodon in a way which is not helpful.
Like everyone else, I have a finite limit to how many people I can support, and this limit is not raised through spam.
2/2
@randahl PS. On the identification issue: we don’t identify the people we’re verifying, we only verify that:
1. They’re Gazan (with the help of our Gazan volunteers who can tell based on dialect)
2. They’re either in Gaza (we ask them to show us around outside and they are either in a Hollywood film set or Gaza) or, if not, that they are upfront about being displaced elsewhere.We don’t (and don’t want to) verify identification and we don’t (and can’t) verify any claims made beyond that.
The verification simply verifies that there is a human being in need at the other end of the account.
-
@aral great! Glad to hear this challenge is on your radar.
When I get the time, I need to read some more about your verification process.
@randahl (Just outlined it in a separate reply.)
-
Randahl: did you see what he said???? This IS X if he posts stuff like that!
The people he intends to hurt are the among the most vulnerable on the planet but tech-dude-bro here apparently knows stuff that the rest of us (however much we might actually know) don't know.
This becomes X if bros like him post stuff like that. And he can expect a robust reponse to his hate and arrogance when he does. I'm all for the friendly village. But when someone's burning it down...
-
@JimmyB @GRA3432 my intention with this thread is certainly not to recommend anyone should be treated badly.
I am simply trying to figure out how we can all coexist in this complex world.
Sometimes I get tagged by accounts that send out many requests every day, tagging dozens of people. This means they are forcibly making phones go "ding!" in the pockets of dozens of people around the globe in the middle of the work day.
I am not convinced this is an optimal way to ensure help where needed.
-
Is it okay to beg for money on Mastodon?
Every week I see accounts asking for money, often tagging me or others directly.
I support recognized aid organisations, but these direct requests make me concerned, because as a Mastodon user I have no way of verifying if the requests are legitimate, or some nefarious person is pretending to be a person in need.
So my question is, should Mastodon servers have a policy about begging, and if so, what should the policy be?
@randahl I think it's fine, the same way that if I pass a panhandler in a public area I don't object even if I don't contribute. I've mostly only seen this from folks I'm familiar with or boosts from people I'm familiar with. It might be culturally specific, because in the United States life is really precarious to a degree not seen in other western countries, so it is very typical for people to set up ad hoc fundraising for life events that would simply not occur in other developed countries.
-
Randahl: did you see what he said???? This IS X if he posts stuff like that!
The people he intends to hurt are the among the most vulnerable on the planet but tech-dude-bro here apparently knows stuff that the rest of us (however much we might actually know) don't know.
This becomes X if bros like him post stuff like that. And he can expect a robust reponse to his hate and arrogance when he does. I'm all for the friendly village. But when someone's burning it down...
@JimmyB @randahl for the record, I think the people of Gaza are in such a dire situation they can't afford to sit all day composing DMs to individuals on a minuscule social network, while scammers will send individual DMs exactly because they get responses (money) — and BTW if you ever respond they'll move convo to Whatsapp or some other network where they can't be quickly blocked
-
So there definitely are scams: the ‘my mum in Gaza has diabetes’ was well known. I think tho the concept of ‘legitimate’ is deeply problematic in itself. Ie someone from W Africa asks for help but pretends to be from somewhere more currently in the news and in vogue. Is that really an issue? Well - I don’t want to give cash to someone with 100 staff running a scheme. But generally I don’t really care: ask for help? I’ll try to help.
-
@Robo105 @randahl I understand. And I’m aware of the scam world - I deal with it professionally in fact.
We have to not cut ourselves off tho from the appalling suffering of the many out there. And in reality for those who are worried there are so many routes thru here: like #GazaVerified
That wasn’t what we saw on this thread tho: we saw a load of privileged people defending their privilege. We’re better when we make ourselves vulnerable
-
-
@JimmyB @randahl for the record, I think the people of Gaza are in such a dire situation they can't afford to sit all day composing DMs to individuals on a minuscule social network, while scammers will send individual DMs exactly because they get responses (money) — and BTW if you ever respond they'll move convo to Whatsapp or some other network where they can't be quickly blocked
@assaf @randahl “For the record”??? For the record…you are wrong and on this thread we have the founder of #GazaVerified which you - in you grotesque arrogance - are choosing to ignore.
Like all tech-dude-bros the fact you’ve thought it means it’s true even when you have no evidence whatsoever. And people who know - really know - are telling you - you. are. wrong.
Your lies hurt desperate people. Please stop
-
@randahl I think it's fine, the same way that if I pass a panhandler in a public area I don't object even if I don't contribute. I've mostly only seen this from folks I'm familiar with or boosts from people I'm familiar with. It might be culturally specific, because in the United States life is really precarious to a degree not seen in other western countries, so it is very typical for people to set up ad hoc fundraising for life events that would simply not occur in other developed countries.
@samvarma I think you are right. Denmark certainly has a lot less fundraising. The fact alone that we all pay for free healthcare for everybody, ensures that people do not have to ask for help to, say, get a cancer treatment.
-
@samvarma I think you are right. Denmark certainly has a lot less fundraising. The fact alone that we all pay for free healthcare for everybody, ensures that people do not have to ask for help to, say, get a cancer treatment.
@randahl I say this as a UK citizen who went to university in Europe by the way, and who has family in Austria. So I have seen firsthand and experienced the contrast.
Secondly I feel like I didn't really address the point of your original post: randoms tagging you in fundraising requests. One of the replies mentioned just muting/blocking and I think I'd probably go down that road. If it can be shown that the acct is a professional nuisance then it would seem instance admin should be looped in.
-
Is it okay to beg for money on Mastodon?
Every week I see accounts asking for money, often tagging me or others directly.
I support recognized aid organisations, but these direct requests make me concerned, because as a Mastodon user I have no way of verifying if the requests are legitimate, or some nefarious person is pretending to be a person in need.
So my question is, should Mastodon servers have a policy about begging, and if so, what should the policy be?
@randahl I understand your concern whether the account is actually real. But just as we have no laws against begging in public spaces, I don't believe we should have a policy in a virtual space. Some will give; most won't.
-
@randahl @aral @Sarahw @Kathmandu @lydiaschoch so I do both. And thru the whole chat here - apart from tech dude bro fella who is indistinguishable from a Zionist propaganda bot - I am just so aware that I’m sitting on my sofa, sipping a pretty nice burgundy. That I can afford to help a little bit is insanely privileged.
The key for me is, those who can, should give and give till it hurts. It’s very good for them.
-
@assaf @randahl “For the record”??? For the record…you are wrong and on this thread we have the founder of #GazaVerified which you - in you grotesque arrogance - are choosing to ignore.
Like all tech-dude-bros the fact you’ve thought it means it’s true even when you have no evidence whatsoever. And people who know - really know - are telling you - you. are. wrong.
Your lies hurt desperate people. Please stop
@JimmyB I share your frustration with the situation in Gaza. It is 100 percent flat out horrible.
But you will not change anyone’s point of view by calling people names and accusing others of being Zionist, because they have a different point of view than you.
I happen to agree with many things you have said. But I strongly disagree with the way you communicate.
It is in kindness we find dialogue and enrich each other’s perspectives.
-
@randahl I understand your concern whether the account is actually real. But just as we have no laws against begging in public spaces, I don't believe we should have a policy in a virtual space. Some will give; most won't.
Not taking a position on this yet but noting that we know the people begging in public are people that are there and not bots.
-
Not taking a position on this yet but noting that we know the people begging in public are people that are there and not bots.
Only in the interest of truth, I should state that several countries have laws against begging.
I am not saying this as an argument for rules on Mastodon. I am simply stating the facts.
