Alright now that I shared my awesome new job, I can finally share with you how moving abroad is going.

[neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk]

@Gina

Milton Keynes looking ever more attractive, I imagine.

[renatoram@fosstodon.org]

@Gina Italy has been experiencing levels of emigration similar to the late 1800s and early 1900s waves (I am also an Italian emigrant), for at least a decade.

The press and politics seem to refuse to mention it, but... the Italians that can, go away (not all, but... many).

(my info/numbers might be old/wrong, willing to hear otherwise by anyone that is better informed. Anecdotally, I know serveral that moved abroad just in my circle of friends, unrelated to my job)

[ryzokuken@mastodon.social]

@Gina it rains quite a bit relatively but the cities are designed very well to avoid any serious issues and usually its a bit of a drizzle anyway.

Think more of constant grey humid drizzle than actual raindrops...

[yngmar@social.tchncs.de]

@Gina Italy is wonderful except for the bureaucracy, which is inefficient and random.

Also some people have a strange hobby called "denunciare"

Wouldn't disregard it though.

Spain has virtually free housing in remote areas of Galicia, which is quite a nice area. Of course that's because the towns are being abandoned.

[castrillo@mastodon.online]

@Gina @_elena @marcel interesting I will share you a point from my exp. If you like good quality ( general speaking ) and easy to find: go to Italy - if you like more tech community go to Barcelona. From my point Girona is to small at all aspects. ( I live in BCN since 2016 ) my family is half Italian. Other good point is if you need move forward your business by using good places, community, networking, etc I think Spain wins here.

[travisfw@fosstodon.org]

@albertcardona @Gina got hackers?

[vickyjo@mastodon.social]

@Gina Aside from the house prices, Switzerland (I was in Lausanne) ticks those boxes.
Across the lake is still lovely (Evian), but you mentioned France was out.

[Gæst]

@Gina not sure that emigrants are the best people to ask...

I left Germany in 1998, I would never go back for a variety of reasons, but I would also say: I have reasons, but they may not apply to you, so better not ask me.

[elricofmelnibone@mastodon.social]

@Gina If it weren't for Brexit, I would seriously consider moving back to Wales. Doesn't quite tick all the boxes, but a majority of them.

[egonw@mastodon.social]

@Gina @_elena @marcel maybe the NL can give you a huge tax break if you stay in rainy NL?

[travisfw@fosstodon.org]

@yngmar @Gina I am crashing Gina's search because I am searching too, with apparently most of the same priorities.
Italy is a whole country. There has to be a nice town with hackers in it.
I have also considered Galicia.

[gina@fosstodon.org]

@travisfw @yngmar yay "gedeelde smart is halve smart" (shared pain is half the pain) as we say in Dutch 🫶

[vincenttunru@fosstodon.org]

@Gina Possibly the only way to get a sub-€500k house with a garden.

[oilyfish@mastodon.sdf.org]

@Gina Currently visiting Oviedo in Asturias (from Porto, PT where I live). It seems to check a lot of the boxes you listed. (I think the airport might be a problem though https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asturias_Airport ) Asturias is beautiful with mountains, beaches, unique and wonderful cider and great food. We come here from Porto once or twice a year.

[gina@fosstodon.org]

@egonw @_elena @marcel lol even I'd live completely rent and tax free I wouldn't stay in the Netherlands

[vickyjo@mastodon.social]

@Gina Portugal has a big tech center, but Lisbon prices (central) are London/Brighton/Amsterdam alike, but perhaps more manageable further out of the city.

[tarnport@mastodon.green]

@Gina @Nono as I said in a private message earlier (I repeat it here for others who may be following the thread) please don't write France off too fast if it's only because of the taxes. You get what you pay for: Having lived in a few of the countries under discussion, France was the fairest, cheapest, highest quality of life, easiest and most organized. Of course it seems to be on fire these days, but so are many of the rest at the moment.

[gina@fosstodon.org]

@oilyfish I'm considering visiting Northern Spain in September to check it out. But I'm leaving NL because I can't deal with the constant grey skies and rain, so I'm not sure if it'll be a good match.

[gina@fosstodon.org]

@Tarnport @Nono yeah everywhere seems to be on fire atm I hope it's just because of El Niño and this isn't a permanent summer thing.

[travisfw@fosstodon.org]

@Gina hopefully not to nitpick, but it seems to me that if one could expect the Italian expats to be united on one issue, they clearly all made that same decision. If the opportunity presents, might it be worth asking some of their family back home why they should have stayed?