Just had to deal with a bunch of wind turbine conspiracy theories at #StateOfEU, this polite political event I’m at in Brussels.
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Also making the case for new nuclear in France right now after the headaches nuclear had with cooling water this summer. WHAT? #StateOfEU
@jon@gruene.social providing nuclear power doesn't drain wind power, it supplements it. There are more than enough fossil fuels to replace; we don't need to, and we really shouldn't, just rely on one source.
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And there was another line. “It’s rich landowners in Brandenburg taking the subsidies from the state to build wind turbines”. This is an equality / distribution issue, not an energy issue! Think of the opposite: “we shouldn’t build turbines there because the land owners are rich!” Errrr… #StateOfEU
@jon as opposed to all those small businesses that own nuclear, coal & gas power plants...?
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@jon The French have at least done reasonable modelling. The https://www.rte-france.com/donnees-publications/etudes-prospectives/futurs-energetique-2050#Premiereedition2021 compared new nuclear deployments to wind+solar plus all the work needed on the network layer (for storage etc.) came out at nuclear being ~10 billion €/year cheaper. Of course, that calculation was with 2010s solar prices, and before the final Flamanville III cost was known. Also at already 70% nuclear electric starting point, so not transferable.
I'm eagerly awaiting the 2026 report update.
@henryk thanks. This is the sort of analysis I’m all for. It’s sensible, and give me numbers and I’m fine with it. Let’s see how updated numbers look indeed!
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@jon@gruene.social providing nuclear power doesn't drain wind power, it supplements it. There are more than enough fossil fuels to replace; we don't need to, and we really shouldn't, just rely on one source.
@amy Sure. I’m not ideologically opposed to nuclear. Fossil fuels are obviously worse.
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@jon part of the problem is that there is no attempt to get the facts out; so conspiracy theorists have a field day. we need govs actively to fight these lies, not just sit and watch them...
@glynmoody but that’s the central point: if our leaders are steeped in the conspiracies we can’t do that.
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@glynmoody but that’s the central point: if our leaders are steeped in the conspiracies we can’t do that.
@jon so back to point a. We’re fucked. Fucked I say. Fuck.
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And there was another line. “It’s rich landowners in Brandenburg taking the subsidies from the state to build wind turbines”. This is an equality / distribution issue, not an energy issue! Think of the opposite: “we shouldn’t build turbines there because the land owners are rich!” Errrr… #StateOfEU
@jon@gruene.social ah, yes, Lithuania has a ~40% wind energy mix because the land owners here are rich and are taking subsidies to build wind turbines (afaik no such subsidies have been available here for land based wind for like 10 years besides one for farmers and even that was for like, 1 big turbine at most (3MW) with a requirement that 50% of the output is used for own purposes)
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Just had to deal with a bunch of wind turbine conspiracy theories at #StateOfEU, this polite political event I’m at in Brussels. Damn we‘re fucked. Fucked. Our notional political elite is believing in utter complete garbage.
@jon Follow the money. The EU has always been utterly corrupt and full of useless political types. UK lobbying isn't pretty but dealing with the EU in the past on open source lobbying was an utter cess pit.
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Just had to deal with a bunch of wind turbine conspiracy theories at #StateOfEU, this polite political event I’m at in Brussels. Damn we‘re fucked. Fucked. Our notional political elite is believing in utter complete garbage.
@jon we in Lithuania sending political trash to EU. Populists and other weird aunts and uncles. By accident there can be normal ones because, you know, errors in system 🫤
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“And those turbines you see in Brandenburg approaching Berlin are so UGLY!” he went on. Climate change, that’s ugly. #StateOfEU
I assume these are people who knowingly or unknowingly have social apps filled with "Trumpist bots!"
Yell it at them loud enough to draw a crowd.
"Russian bots are ALSO deeply interested in keeping Europe handcuffed to Russian oil and gas!"
"20,000 Europeans were killed by carbon fueled ignorance This Year!"
"German forests are dying standing up. A billion dollars in crops lost!"
"The bloody (damn, poor, fucking - you choose) rivers are dry!"
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And there was another line. “It’s rich landowners in Brandenburg taking the subsidies from the state to build wind turbines”. This is an equality / distribution issue, not an energy issue! Think of the opposite: “we shouldn’t build turbines there because the land owners are rich!” Errrr… #StateOfEU
This is the ethical point here: NOTHING is more important than combatting climate change. Nothing. Without a liveable planet nothing else works. I’ll have a debate about the numbers, and how to decarbonise. But I’ve no time for whataboutism, nimbyism or conspiracy theories. #StateOfEU
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This is the ethical point here: NOTHING is more important than combatting climate change. Nothing. Without a liveable planet nothing else works. I’ll have a debate about the numbers, and how to decarbonise. But I’ve no time for whataboutism, nimbyism or conspiracy theories. #StateOfEU
@jon well said!
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Turbines kill birds. They don’t you jerk. Your cat is more a danger to birds. #StateOfEU
Edit: for clarification - the number isn’t zero. But it’s not a significant issue.
@jon What I always feel gets missed out on the subject of bird deaths is: nothing has a bigger overall, long-term impact on bird populations than habitat loss.
And what makes habitat loss a much, much more pressing concern? Climate change.
Over a longer period, turbines can save the lives of countless birds.
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Turbines kill birds. They don’t you jerk. Your cat is more a danger to birds. #StateOfEU
Edit: for clarification - the number isn’t zero. But it’s not a significant issue.
@jon Don't think they would have problem regulating cats. Cars (that also contribute more than turbines) on the other hand...
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Turbines kill birds. They don’t you jerk. Your cat is more a danger to birds. #StateOfEU
Edit: for clarification - the number isn’t zero. But it’s not a significant issue.
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@jon What I always feel gets missed out on the subject of bird deaths is: nothing has a bigger overall, long-term impact on bird populations than habitat loss.
And what makes habitat loss a much, much more pressing concern? Climate change.
Over a longer period, turbines can save the lives of countless birds.
@RolloTreadway @jon And then there is this bugbear: https://eupolicy.social/@bert_hubert/117322044276824823
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This is the ethical point here: NOTHING is more important than combatting climate change. Nothing. Without a liveable planet nothing else works. I’ll have a debate about the numbers, and how to decarbonise. But I’ve no time for whataboutism, nimbyism or conspiracy theories. #StateOfEU
@jon sag das mal all den Dummköpfen, die diese unfähigen, eigensüchtigen, weltfremden Typen an due Bundesregierung gewählt haben.....
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@jon Follow the money. The EU has always been utterly corrupt and full of useless political types. UK lobbying isn't pretty but dealing with the EU in the past on open source lobbying was an utter cess pit.
@etchedpixels I’ve got no other choice. The area I work in - rail policy - is largely decided here.
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@jon Follow the money. The EU has always been utterly corrupt and full of useless political types. UK lobbying isn't pretty but dealing with the EU in the past on open source lobbying was an utter cess pit.
@etchedpixels @jon That's not been our experience at @osi @policy . We were very well received by the Commission on CRA topics once they had figured OSI is a charity not a lobbyist, and we were able to get things greatly improved by engaging.
