This is a modern motherfucking website.
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@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven The front page right now says there's 231-THOUSAND current users, however they're measuring that. I'm sure a lot of people are using their phones these days, but nevertheless, it's not me that you have to convince to switch. But even if my system supports it, I'm still not going to use it.
Okay, then I have to ask:
* If using WebP would be convenient for me,
* but inconvenient for you,
* and you refuse to solve the inconvenience for you while simultaneously solving all the other problems that Windows/macOS cause for you,
* while solving no problems for me whatsoever,
* and leaving me to scratch my head over how to avoid losing SEO from the resulting slower page loads,then why exactly should I go to the trouble of refraining from using WebP?
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Okay, then I have to ask:
* If using WebP would be convenient for me,
* but inconvenient for you,
* and you refuse to solve the inconvenience for you while simultaneously solving all the other problems that Windows/macOS cause for you,
* while solving no problems for me whatsoever,
* and leaving me to scratch my head over how to avoid losing SEO from the resulting slower page loads,then why exactly should I go to the trouble of refraining from using WebP?
@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven
>and you refuse to solve the inconvenience
What's there to solve? It's not like "oh maybe I should emerge -avq media-gfx/super-duper-webp-thumbnailer to get this working in Emanuele's funny torment nexus" and that makes the problem of Google imposing this file format on the internet while bullying out the competition from loading in Blink-adjacent web browsers from going away. "Solving" the "inconvenience" involves dropping nukes or Alphabet getting trust-busted. What do you want from me? -
@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven
>and you refuse to solve the inconvenience
What's there to solve? It's not like "oh maybe I should emerge -avq media-gfx/super-duper-webp-thumbnailer to get this working in Emanuele's funny torment nexus" and that makes the problem of Google imposing this file format on the internet while bullying out the competition from loading in Blink-adjacent web browsers from going away. "Solving" the "inconvenience" involves dropping nukes or Alphabet getting trust-busted. What do you want from me?@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven Like there's a world where I save every webp in its own little gulag folder and ask the slopalisk to pretty please write a script that detected things like alpha and animation and heuristically determine whether the webp that you posted should be converted into a jpeg, gif, png, or audio-less webm, and batch convert all the dogshit coming out of the internet pipe at once. That doesnt "solve" the "inconvenience," it just automates having to unfuck the internet, and it's still 100% my loss and 100% your gain. -
@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven
>and you refuse to solve the inconvenience
What's there to solve? It's not like "oh maybe I should emerge -avq media-gfx/super-duper-webp-thumbnailer to get this working in Emanuele's funny torment nexus" and that makes the problem of Google imposing this file format on the internet while bullying out the competition from loading in Blink-adjacent web browsers from going away. "Solving" the "inconvenience" involves dropping nukes or Alphabet getting trust-busted. What do you want from me?You mean to tell me this is literally the only thing about Windows that is causing you trouble?
Not having a screenshot taken every 3 seconds and uploaded to Microsoft for AI training? Not the ads? Not Copilot in freaking Notepad? None of it?
Okay then.
️For the record, I did not suggest you install Gentoo or NetBSD. There's a whole spectrum between doing literally nothing and computing on ultra-nightmare mode.
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You mean to tell me this is literally the only thing about Windows that is causing you trouble?
Not having a screenshot taken every 3 seconds and uploaded to Microsoft for AI training? Not the ads? Not Copilot in freaking Notepad? None of it?
Okay then.
️For the record, I did not suggest you install Gentoo or NetBSD. There's a whole spectrum between doing literally nothing and computing on ultra-nightmare mode.
@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven I didn't say I used Windows, I said there's two-hundred-and-thirty-thousand other people on the website at that snapshot in time and you have to convince ALL OF THEM.
And I do use Gentoo, absolutely. -
You mean to tell me this is literally the only thing about Windows that is causing you trouble?
Not having a screenshot taken every 3 seconds and uploaded to Microsoft for AI training? Not the ads? Not Copilot in freaking Notepad? None of it?
Okay then.
️For the record, I did not suggest you install Gentoo or NetBSD. There's a whole spectrum between doing literally nothing and computing on ultra-nightmare mode.
Also for the record, Alphabet getting trust-busted won't make WebP any less available or useful. People will still use it.
Well, that or they might start using JPEG XL. Don't look now, but Chrome just added support for that too. I think Google finally relented on that because now they have a decoder written in Rust, so they don't have to worry about buffer overflow exploits…which WebP has had.
I'm guessing Windows won't natively support that either, though.
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@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven Like there's a world where I save every webp in its own little gulag folder and ask the slopalisk to pretty please write a script that detected things like alpha and animation and heuristically determine whether the webp that you posted should be converted into a jpeg, gif, png, or audio-less webm, and batch convert all the dogshit coming out of the internet pipe at once. That doesnt "solve" the "inconvenience," it just automates having to unfuck the internet, and it's still 100% my loss and 100% your gain.
Wait, you're big mad about WebP but fine with WebM?
Now I'm terribly confused. -
@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven I didn't say I used Windows, I said there's two-hundred-and-thirty-thousand other people on the website at that snapshot in time and you have to convince ALL OF THEM.
And I do use Gentoo, absolutely.What's the problem, then? The only trouble I've had with WebP is that I needed to separately install webp-pixbuf-loader to make WebP work in Inkscape, which is…annoying and arguably a distro bug, but whatever. The situation on Windows certainly isn't any better.
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Also for the record, Alphabet getting trust-busted won't make WebP any less available or useful. People will still use it.
Well, that or they might start using JPEG XL. Don't look now, but Chrome just added support for that too. I think Google finally relented on that because now they have a decoder written in Rust, so they don't have to worry about buffer overflow exploits…which WebP has had.
I'm guessing Windows won't natively support that either, though.
@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven I had seen a conversation about it that convinced me that it should slot in next-to-transparently on any system or software that supported both, like we could eventually expect to have legacy jpegs and jpeg xls floating around with the same file extension and nobody would notice. I can't remember why I got that idea, maybe it's because it's a superset of the old format. Still, I've seen the benchmarks and I understand/at one point understood how the file formats fit together, and it's my personal horse in the file extension race. -
So yeah, a vulnerable server-side thumbnail generator. Welp.
Does 4chan have unofficial client apps? That's the only reason I can think of to not generate thumbnails on the client side…
@argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org
Letting the client upload a separate thumbnail for the image being submitted sounds like a bad idea — users are unlikely to appreciate finding shock content clicking on normally looking thumbnails. It also sounds like a moderation nightmare — because mods would have to check both: thumbnails AND original images.
@idiot@shitposter.world
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Wait, you're big mad about WebP but fine with WebM?
Now I'm terribly confused.@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven Google did the same thing with VP8/VP9 less successfully and AV1 more prolifically that it did with webps, but the difference is that a) it was going up against MPEG-LA rather than every Tom, Dick, and Harry file format that just happened to lie outside the organization, and b) Google still has to support MPEG-4 and HEVC and whatever the successor is called in Blink, whereas it just shut out all the competing image file formats because fuck you, not invented here, we own the internet so just try and stop us. Same methods, different results. AV1 is a still piece of shit codec even if I'm glad it exists. -
This is a modern motherfucking website.
And it’s still fucking perfect.
@lproven OMG, I'm gonna need a tissue after that. Beautiful.
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@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven I had seen a conversation about it that convinced me that it should slot in next-to-transparently on any system or software that supported both, like we could eventually expect to have legacy jpegs and jpeg xls floating around with the same file extension and nobody would notice. I can't remember why I got that idea, maybe it's because it's a superset of the old format. Still, I've seen the benchmarks and I understand/at one point understood how the file formats fit together, and it's my personal horse in the file extension race.
Nope:
$ jpeginfo test.jxl
test.jxl 0 x 0 0bit N 3680 ERROR Not a JPEG file: starts with 0xff 0x0aIt is possible to losslessly transcode from classic JPEG to JPEG XL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG_XL#Upgrade_path but JPEG XL images apparently can't be decoded by classic JPEG decoders.
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This is a modern motherfucking website.
And it’s still fucking perfect.
@lproven good one!
though I should note it failed to learn the lessons of https://perfectmotherfuckingwebsite.com namely adding a few lines of css to avoid the wall to wall text on desktop
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Nope:
$ jpeginfo test.jxl
test.jxl 0 x 0 0bit N 3680 ERROR Not a JPEG file: starts with 0xff 0x0aIt is possible to losslessly transcode from classic JPEG to JPEG XL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPEG_XL#Upgrade_path but JPEG XL images apparently can't be decoded by classic JPEG decoders.
@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven Yeah I went to skim Wikipedia to be more specific and realized that I invented the total interchangeability in my head. At least you can losslessly upgrade images, I'll take that over nothing. -
@argv_minus_one @chaekyung @lproven Google did the same thing with VP8/VP9 less successfully and AV1 more prolifically that it did with webps, but the difference is that a) it was going up against MPEG-LA rather than every Tom, Dick, and Harry file format that just happened to lie outside the organization, and b) Google still has to support MPEG-4 and HEVC and whatever the successor is called in Blink, whereas it just shut out all the competing image file formats because fuck you, not invented here, we own the internet so just try and stop us. Same methods, different results. AV1 is a still piece of shit codec even if I'm glad it exists.
Huh? Blink still supports the classic image formats (GIF, JPEG, PNG), AVIF, and now JPEG XL.
There are a bunch of other post-PNG image formats that it doesn't support, but that's because they're patented (HEIF, JPEG XR, JPEG 2000) and/or nobody else supports them either (MNG, FLIF, BPG).
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@argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org
Letting the client upload a separate thumbnail for the image being submitted sounds like a bad idea — users are unlikely to appreciate finding shock content clicking on normally looking thumbnails. It also sounds like a moderation nightmare — because mods would have to check both: thumbnails AND original images.
@idiot@shitposter.world -
…Is there an actual reason why 4chan rejects WebP?
I would think the operator of an image board, of all things, would appreciate a new and improved image compression method.
@argv_minus_one @idiot @lproven I don't think 4chan has changed a single line of code in it's backend the last 10 years and I'm not even sure the person operating it knows how it works or what any of the existing code does. I suspect we'd see any kind of improvement in the span of a decade if that wasn't the case.
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@argv_minus_one @idiot @lproven I don't think 4chan has changed a single line of code in it's backend the last 10 years and I'm not even sure the person operating it knows how it works or what any of the existing code does. I suspect we'd see any kind of improvement in the span of a decade if that wasn't the case.
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Also for the record, Alphabet getting trust-busted won't make WebP any less available or useful. People will still use it.
Well, that or they might start using JPEG XL. Don't look now, but Chrome just added support for that too. I think Google finally relented on that because now they have a decoder written in Rust, so they don't have to worry about buffer overflow exploits…which WebP has had.
I'm guessing Windows won't natively support that either, though.
@argv_minus_one @idiot @lproven It's been so long since I've read up on JPEG XL that I'd forgotten what it's all about so I decided to read up on it and...
JPEG XL is obsolete. It's all about JPEG AI now. Because.. of course it is. It's not clear how it is superior to regular JPEG and JPEG XL but it has the "AI" and those letters are typically worth billions when they are attached to something, and it doesn't seem to matter if it's a toothbrush or a image format.
