Almost all the servers on Mastodon and the wider Fediverse are run by unpaid grassroots volunteers that pay their server's bills out of their own pockets.
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It depends on what is meant by sustainable and long scale. There are many instances that have been operating since 2017 (Mastodon only began in 2016) or similar.
There have been many commercial social networks which have come and gone in that time such as Post News and Hive, which were run by professionals. The commercial networks couldn't make enough money to please investors so they shut down. Whereas the non-professional Fedi just carried on as it didn't need to please investors.
@FediTips@social.growyourown.services @feyter@mastodon.gamedev.place there are instances older than mastodon
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@FediTips Yes, good point. Monetization of any kind isn't done by anyone hosting.
Thanks. I tend to think worst case in this age of surveillance economy.
It's totally fair to ask about risk of data sales, and a reasonable attitude
As far as I know it hasn't happened, but of course there's always a risk online.
One thing that's really good about the Fedi is it doesn't ask for more personal data than it needs, there's no requirement for a phone number or real name or personal photo etc.
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@FediTips@social.growyourown.services @feyter@mastodon.gamedev.place there are instances older than mastodon
@tauon @FediTips and there will be instances as long as at least one person is willing to host them.
But will there be enough people willing (and able) to host and administrate enough instances for the entire world all just for cost coverage at best? I don't think so.
Fediverse will not die without more possibilities to secure a revenue. But without it, I highly doubt it will get big enough for the change in society it could provide.
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@zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @joelp@mastodon.sdf.org do you fucking think i didn't
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@tauon @FediTips and there will be instances as long as at least one person is willing to host them.
But will there be enough people willing (and able) to host and administrate enough instances for the entire world all just for cost coverage at best? I don't think so.
Fediverse will not die without more possibilities to secure a revenue. But without it, I highly doubt it will get big enough for the change in society it could provide.
"But will there be enough people willing (and able) to host and administrate enough instances for the entire world all just for cost coverage at best? I don't think so. "
You're asserting this, but you're not providing specific examples to support your case?
The best-funded and most corporate-like instance on the Fedi is mastodon.social but it has worse-than-average moderation and many other instances either block it or would like to (but feel it's too big to block).
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@zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @joelp@mastodon.sdf.org do you fucking think i didn't
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@zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @joelp@mastodon.sdf.org i just think a reply asking me to read it is not very nice when i asked what you were trying to say
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@zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @joelp@mastodon.sdf.org i just think a reply asking me to read it is not very nice when i asked what you were trying to say
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@zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @joelp@mastodon.sdf.org are you implying that there's no such thing as nonsense? or do i yet again not understand
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@zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @joelp@mastodon.sdf.org are you implying that there's no such thing as nonsense? or do i yet again not understand
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@zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @joelp@mastodon.sdf.org okay man i didn't realise you were just trolling very badly
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@zer0unplanned@friendica.rogueproject.org @FediTips@social.growyourown.services @joelp@mastodon.sdf.org okay man i didn't realise you were just trolling very badly
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This is not a good advert for the Fediverse. It's supposed to be a thread about helping volunteer admins.
I'm not going to tell you what to post elsewhere, but this is derailing my thread.
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"But will there be enough people willing (and able) to host and administrate enough instances for the entire world all just for cost coverage at best? I don't think so. "
You're asserting this, but you're not providing specific examples to support your case?
The best-funded and most corporate-like instance on the Fedi is mastodon.social but it has worse-than-average moderation and many other instances either block it or would like to (but feel it's too big to block).
@FediTips @tauon I think you just provided the evidence.
Mastodon.social is run by a non profit organization while they have the burden to be host for "normal people". Mastodon is far from being popular enough for making a real social change in the world, but we already have instances struggling to handle the people.
So if people will not change their behavior, and the Fediverse will not change it's acceptance of commerciality, I don't see how this should work out with even bigger numbers.
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@FediTips @tauon I think you just provided the evidence.
Mastodon.social is run by a non profit organization while they have the burden to be host for "normal people". Mastodon is far from being popular enough for making a real social change in the world, but we already have instances struggling to handle the people.
So if people will not change their behavior, and the Fediverse will not change it's acceptance of commerciality, I don't see how this should work out with even bigger numbers.
"I think you just provided the evidence"
I meant mastodon.social moderation is worse than smaller volunteer-based unpaid Mastodon instances.
"we already have instances struggling to handle the people."
It's mastodon.social that is struggling because it has too many people. Smaller instances are coping and taking on new members.
"I don't see how this should work out with even bigger numbers"
The more people join the Fedi, the more new Fedi servers get started. It scales up.
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"I think you just provided the evidence"
I meant mastodon.social moderation is worse than smaller volunteer-based unpaid Mastodon instances.
"we already have instances struggling to handle the people."
It's mastodon.social that is struggling because it has too many people. Smaller instances are coping and taking on new members.
"I don't see how this should work out with even bigger numbers"
The more people join the Fedi, the more new Fedi servers get started. It scales up.
@FediTips what you're describing is the average fedi enjoyer use case. Small communities that have at least one techy person able to do this on volunteer basis (but normally being a tech affine community in the first place). I think there is a limited amount of people in the world for which this use case works out. I would even say, it's not the norm.
You can (and should) have multiple smaller commercially driven instances competing with each other for te rest. But they need to start somewhere.
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@FediTips what you're describing is the average fedi enjoyer use case. Small communities that have at least one techy person able to do this on volunteer basis (but normally being a tech affine community in the first place). I think there is a limited amount of people in the world for which this use case works out. I would even say, it's not the norm.
You can (and should) have multiple smaller commercially driven instances competing with each other for te rest. But they need to start somewhere.
I do not see any actual evidence to show a need for commercially-driven instances?
The track record of commercial social networks is as bad as it can possibly be:
https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/18/17587080/mark-zuckerberg-holocaust-denial-kara-swisher-interview
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/growth-at-any-cost-top-facebook-executive-defended-data
etc etc etc
"Small communities that have at least one techy person able to do this on volunteer basis"
You don't need to be techy to run an instance, paid managed hosting does all the techy stuff.
