⚠️ A reminder that like all social networks Mastodon is not end-to-end encrypted.
-
"but he neither runs nor “owns” Signal "
Acton is listed by the local government of California as the CEO, Secretary and CFO of the Signal Technology Foundation which owns Signal:
The form is dated Feb 2024 so I assume it is current.
@FediTips Yes, he is heavily involved (thanks for the research, and, yes, I agree that one person having multiple key roles is very unhealthy!), but I’m sure he is not able to act unilaterally.
It’s absolutely the right thing to encourage use of secure messaging, and highlighting more secure systems away from less secure/private ones (eg, SMS, Telegram, WhatsApp), but while some interesting options are still less mature, a usable solution is surely better than none?
-
@FediTips Yes, he is heavily involved (thanks for the research, and, yes, I agree that one person having multiple key roles is very unhealthy!), but I’m sure he is not able to act unilaterally.
It’s absolutely the right thing to encourage use of secure messaging, and highlighting more secure systems away from less secure/private ones (eg, SMS, Telegram, WhatsApp), but while some interesting options are still less mature, a usable solution is surely better than none?
Fair enough, and just to be clear, I'm not saying don't use it, all the options have crappy sides to them. I wouldn't have mentioned Signal as an option otherwise.
But I am worried that if a centralised option becomes the default one, then history will just repeat itself
-
@FediTips telling people to not use one of the most powerful privacy tools available is not mild questioning
Non-profit foundations do not have shares - Acton would not profit from its sale (even if one was remotely possible, which it isn’t). You are actively misinforming your followers and making it harder for them to protect their privacy.
Shame on you.
I am, however, somewhat troubled about possible developments in Switzerland which might require Signal (and Proton) to find another home...
-
I am, however, somewhat troubled about possible developments in Switzerland which might require Signal (and Proton) to find another home...
AFAIK Signal is based in the US? Their website lists their address as 650 Castro Street, Suite 120-223 Mountain View, CA 94041, USA.
-
I didn't tell people not to use it, I warned them it was centralised.
"You are actively misinforming your followers"
That's kind of a serious accusation? Which specific part of my post is misinforming them?
It IS centralised, and that DOES make it more vulnerable. Are you saying I shouldn't inform them about this?
@FediTips @danielnazer Also, it's published at the Apple App Store by Signal Messenger LLC. Brian Acton is the CEO of Signal Messenger LLC, and chairman of Signal Foundation. Right now, Signal is the best "daily driver" messenger. It is in risk of enshittification (we're looking at you, Mozilla!), but right now it is the secure option that just works.
-
It's not intended as sneering, it's a fact that being centralised makes you more vulnerable to takeovers and/or enshittification. It could be the most well-meaning person in the world running it, it's the structure that is the problem. It makes it too easy for outsiders to swoop in, and too tempting for insiders to sell out.
Another fact is that Signal is run by the billionaire who sold Whatsapp to Meta. It seems reasonable to be concerned he might do it again to get even richer.
Another fact is that Signal is run by the billionaire who sold Whatsapp to Meta. It seems reasonable to be concerned he might do it again to get even richer.
That's as far I can tell misinformation, please provide a reliable source for this claim.
-
️ A reminder that like all social networks Mastodon is not end-to-end encrypted. It is not designed or intended as a way to send sensitive information.If you need to send private messages with sensitive content, use a secure messenger with end-to-end encryption both present and activated.
Some options are XMPP with OMEMO (https://joinjabber.org), @delta & @briar
Another is Signal, but Signal is centralised which makes it more vulnerable to enshittification or selling itself to Meta etc.
-
Another fact is that Signal is run by the billionaire who sold Whatsapp to Meta. It seems reasonable to be concerned he might do it again to get even richer.
That's as far I can tell misinformation, please provide a reliable source for this claim.
-
I'm not sure what you are saying is incorrect?
Brian Acton is the billionaire who sold Whatsapp and set up Signal. According to the newest filing I could find, he is currently CEO, Secretary and CFO of the Signal Foundation which owns Signal.
-
Another fact is that Signal is run by the billionaire who sold Whatsapp to Meta. It seems reasonable to be concerned he might do it again to get even richer.
That's as far I can tell misinformation, please provide a reliable source for this claim.
Brian Acton set up Whatsapp and sold it to Meta.
Brian Acton set up Signal and is currently in charge of it.
Here is the legal filing showing he is CEO, Secretary and CFO of the Signal Foundation which owns Signal:
-
️ A reminder that like all social networks Mastodon is not end-to-end encrypted. It is not designed or intended as a way to send sensitive information.
If you need to send private messages with sensitive content, use a secure messenger with end-to-end encryption both present and activated.
Some options are XMPP with OMEMO (https://joinjabber.org), @delta & @briar
Another is Signal, but Signal is centralised which makes it more vulnerable to enshittification or selling itself to Meta etc.
-
The idea of https://joinjabber.org is to give people an easy way to get started, so I guess it might be useful to encourage others to sign up there and then exchange addresses with them so you can add them to your contacts.
It works in a similar way to the Fediverse, if you exchange addresses you can follow each other even if your server hasn't noticed their account yet.
If you want to set up your own server, @snikket_im is an excellent option which suits non-tech people too.
-
Enshittification doesn't happen in the growth phase. In the growth phase everything is great and users are treated like royalty.
But when a network becomes so dominant that people feel forced to use it (such as Whatsapp) then the enshittification can start, because people can't escape any more.
The more people that congregate on a centralised service, the closer you are bringing that service to enshittification, and the more people will be trapped on it.
-
@FediTips @danielnazer Also, it's published at the Apple App Store by Signal Messenger LLC. Brian Acton is the CEO of Signal Messenger LLC, and chairman of Signal Foundation. Right now, Signal is the best "daily driver" messenger. It is in risk of enshittification (we're looking at you, Mozilla!), but right now it is the secure option that just works.
Signal just works because it's centralised and gets lots of money from a billionaire.
This is the same path Whatsapp took, with the same guy in charge. The more people use it the closer it gets to that fate.
I get that Signal so much easier than other options, but that ease of use is for all the wrong reasons: centralisation and billionaire cash.
-
Signal just works because it's centralised and gets lots of money from a billionaire.
This is the same path Whatsapp took, with the same guy in charge. The more people use it the closer it gets to that fate.
I get that Signal so much easier than other options, but that ease of use is for all the wrong reasons: centralisation and billionaire cash.
@FediTips We can't all be radio operators using single-use tabs...
-
@FediTips We can't all be radio operators using single-use tabs...
If people can set up and use email, they can set up and use XMPP.
-
If people can set up and use email, they can set up and use XMPP.
@FediTips I ran my own Prosody server for a while, on my own physical machine. Couldn't onboard people who are not 100% into FOSS to use mobile phone apps like Conversations. The best I could do is Signal.
-
@FediTips I ran my own Prosody server for a while, on my own physical machine. Couldn't onboard people who are not 100% into FOSS to use mobile phone apps like Conversations. The best I could do is Signal.
What did they struggle with in the onboarding? Did they give you feedback about it?
-
Yes, have seen that.
They write: "(Federated networks) can feel like you’re controlling your own destiny, whether or not that’s true. And those emotions can be a powerful thing."
It's kind of patronising and arrogant, implying that those who value decentralisation are deluding themselves for emotional reasons
Sort of difficult to take the author seriously when they won't take the reader seriously.
They also don't say what happens if Signal's owner sells out to Meta again.
@FediTips @beachcomber > Sort of difficult to take the author seriously when they won't take the reader seriously.
It is difficult, but you should be able to do it. Don’t discard the valid parts of the criticism just because the author is not writing this without biases. There are good points made in the article, even though I don’t think PGP is “stupid”.
-
@FediTips @beachcomber > Sort of difficult to take the author seriously when they won't take the reader seriously.
It is difficult, but you should be able to do it. Don’t discard the valid parts of the criticism just because the author is not writing this without biases. There are good points made in the article, even though I don’t think PGP is “stupid”.
Fair enough! My main problem with the article though is it doesn't say what happens if Signal enshittifies. Even if Signal has the best encryption in the world now, it can change in the future.
Lots of centralised services start out really good and useful, but then turn bad when they get into a dominant position and have users locked in. There's just no easy way to leave a popular centralised messenger service, all your contacts are there.
