Just started migrating from #Todoist to #Superproductivity and became a sponsor of the latter so that Johannes Millan can get closer to his goal of working on this promising open-source task manager full-time.
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@malte I've been mulling it over a lot in the last few days, and wondering if there was a movement of devs supporting some products by reviewing & cleaning up LLM code? I think, like you asked Johannes, knowing the thinking & decision making behind the work is as important as it's features.
@curiouslily Agree, having the transparency is a first minimum step for me to trust the project!
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@superproductivity Seeing all the LLM-generated code makes me doubt my decision and worry how much review the code is getting. I wonder if the main developer Johannes could speak to that doubt.
@malte everyone who works professionally in the area knows that almost everyone uses llm at this point. I understand and probably share some of your concerns, but if you don't want to use software that uses llm in its creation, you'll very soon find that there is not a lot of software left, especially since you won't find a modern OS that doesn't use llm generated code.
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@malte everyone who works professionally in the area knows that almost everyone uses llm at this point. I understand and probably share some of your concerns, but if you don't want to use software that uses llm in its creation, you'll very soon find that there is not a lot of software left, especially since you won't find a modern OS that doesn't use llm generated code.
@superproductivity I did not say that I don't want to use software that uses LLM in its creation.
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My gold standard for a #taskmanager I would love to use:
- Cross-platform: Linux, Windows, Android (mobile app, desktop, browser)
- #FLOSS
- Quick add to inbox
- Lightning fast
- #GTD compatible
- Filters to organize tasks after context (labels)
- Hotkeys so all actions can be done via keyboard
- Recurring tasks at specific intervals
- Start and due dates
- Collaborate on projects
- Not LLM-coded or with clear boundaries on how LLM-software is used (e.g. localisation for other languages)This thread has been a learning experience for me. I have decided to not use #Superproductivity. My criteria have been:
- Being made aware by others of the amount of LLM-generated code in the software
- Voicing concerns about how much review the code is getting. Then getting a response from the main developer that failed to address those concerns and instead read opinions into my concern that are not there.
- Asking a question about whether an article was LLM-generated, getting no response. -
This thread has been a learning experience for me. I have decided to not use #Superproductivity. My criteria have been:
- Being made aware by others of the amount of LLM-generated code in the software
- Voicing concerns about how much review the code is getting. Then getting a response from the main developer that failed to address those concerns and instead read opinions into my concern that are not there.
- Asking a question about whether an article was LLM-generated, getting no response.I put my own decision making process out in the open with an eye to building norms about how we choose which software projects we feel comfortable using and supporting. (And promoting as I have done is supporting). I believe we lack new norms and etiquettes surrounding the use of LLM and sharing openly our thoughts processes in these very concrete cases could be a driving force for setting new standards.
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I put my own decision making process out in the open with an eye to building norms about how we choose which software projects we feel comfortable using and supporting. (And promoting as I have done is supporting). I believe we lack new norms and etiquettes surrounding the use of LLM and sharing openly our thoughts processes in these very concrete cases could be a driving force for setting new standards.
The common denominator to my criteria is the lack of clarity around the use of LLM in the project. My main concern is actually not the use of LLM. I have a lot of concerns about it. But much more importantly is lack of transparency about the issue. I don't want to use and support projects that avoid questions like "How do you use LLM to code and if you generate code with LLMs, how do you review it?"
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@maltelau and I would of course recommend looking into #orgmode (primarily used inside Emacs, but multiple other options exist)
It's text based and IMHO quite neat.
There are people using it as their tool for #gtd and there are open source apps for android.
There's probably a plugin or work done to make it work for your text editor too. (Depending on what you use).
Very interesting discussion and interested to hear more about what you figure out
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@maltimore I'm checking out orgmode, specifically Orgzly revived for Android. I like how fast it seems and built with simplicity in mind (maybe a bit too simple, I'll see). @folfdk @maltelau
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@maltimore I'm checking out orgmode, specifically Orgzly revived for Android. I like how fast it seems and built with simplicity in mind (maybe a bit too simple, I'll see). @folfdk @maltelau
@maltimore I'm also struck by how strongly I associate this software with geek culture and my tendency to skip exploring the app (thinking it'll be way over my abilities). For one thing, the app name is almost impossible to pronounce, which makes me think it was made by people who spend more time with people through screens and text than in person. There's lots of jargon (Emacs) and generally lots of words on the webpage. Despite it, I'm curious to explore @folfdk @maltelau
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@maltimore I'm also struck by how strongly I associate this software with geek culture and my tendency to skip exploring the app (thinking it'll be way over my abilities). For one thing, the app name is almost impossible to pronounce, which makes me think it was made by people who spend more time with people through screens and text than in person. There's lots of jargon (Emacs) and generally lots of words on the webpage. Despite it, I'm curious to explore @folfdk @maltelau
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@maltimore I got Orgzly Revived up and running enough that I can see I could conceivably learn to use it. Orgmode on Emacs on my laptop seems much more imprenetable. I don't know where to start and don't understand most of the concepts on the tutorials I search up. Case in point: Getting a GTD setup up and running in ORG brought me here and I don't know what MELPA or 'use package' or an 'init file' is etc. etc: https://github.com/Trevoke/org-gtd.el @folfdk @maltelau
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@maltimore I got Orgzly Revived up and running enough that I can see I could conceivably learn to use it. Orgmode on Emacs on my laptop seems much more imprenetable. I don't know where to start and don't understand most of the concepts on the tutorials I search up. Case in point: Getting a GTD setup up and running in ORG brought me here and I don't know what MELPA or 'use package' or an 'init file' is etc. etc: https://github.com/Trevoke/org-gtd.el @folfdk @maltelau
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@malte
I'd recommend you look at
https://easyorgmode.com/Longer explanation:
Emacs is written in the programming language emacs lisp. Settings are defined in the init.el (.el is short for Emacs lisp)
Since Emacs is written in lisp, people can write code to extend Emacs and distribute that in a package archive. MELPA is such an archive (the most used one).
use-package
is a way to say "use this package".I hope this helps a little bit.
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@malte
Did you try their live demo? It is a web interface, so it will adapt to your screen size.So, basically it should work on any device that has a reasonably modern browser
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@malte
Did you try their live demo? It is a web interface, so it will adapt to your screen size.So, basically it should work on any device that has a reasonably modern browser
@folfdk I did and some of the functionality really doesn't work that well on a desktop. To change a task from TODO to DONE requires swiping right, for example, which I struggle with on my laptop. @maltimore @maltelau
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@folfdk I did and some of the functionality really doesn't work that well on a desktop. To change a task from TODO to DONE requires swiping right, for example, which I struggle with on my laptop. @maltimore @maltelau
@malte @folfdk @maltimore i guess for Emacs the way to get an "easier interface" is to a) customise your keyboard shortcuts if you don't like C-c C-t for switching TODO state and b) use it more to get more familiar
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@malte @folfdk @maltimore i guess for Emacs the way to get an "easier interface" is to a) customise your keyboard shortcuts if you don't like C-c C-t for switching TODO state and b) use it more to get more familiar
@maltelau I wonder how much you interact with people that are unfamiliar with software like Emacs. Pick a random family member that do not know what Emacs (or init.el or "MELPA") is and then ask them to follow the instructions you just gave me. The problem really isn't making new keyboard shortcuts for me. The problem is my skill level. Getting more familiar with difficult programs requires proportionally more energy. My goal is to get a functioning GTD app soon @folfdk @maltimore
