Good morning Mastodon!
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@idlestate @CiaraNi yes I wish waste to energy plants didn't only get built in the poorest neighborhoods, and they do pump out some air pollution and a lot of greenhouse gases, but if the waste is there anyway it has to go somewhere and they're exponentially better than landfill
@afewbugs @idlestate @CiaraNi and if they are going to do it, they should at least make it into something like copenhill in Copenhagen...
Also it should be used for district heating. My apartment is heated by heat from a waste to energy facility.
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@afewbugs @idlestate @CiaraNi and if they are going to do it, they should at least make it into something like copenhill in Copenhagen...
Also it should be used for district heating. My apartment is heated by heat from a waste to energy facility.
@afewbugs @idlestate @CiaraNi
Video about the Copenhagen plant.
https://youtu.be/21ijLduW0nw -
@afewbugs @idlestate @CiaraNi
Video about the Copenhagen plant.
https://youtu.be/21ijLduW0nw@quixoticgeek @afewbugs @idlestate @CiaraNi it's going to a landfill anyway - where do you think the ash gets dumped? Another poor, black and brown neighborhood.
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@afewbugs I've had trouble getting clarification on whether the shops that offer battery recycling will accept lithium ion batteries, or devices containing them, at all. In my local authority area (Gateshead), the only approved way of disposing of such batteries seems to be to take them to one of the council household waste and recycling centres, which unfortunately requires you to have a vehicle and book in advance. Yes it's ridiculous.
@kbm0 they should be doing this, but the shop owners with the bins may not know . I supplemented that post with a bit of background knowledge not from the tour because an ex of mine did a lot of research on battery recycling as part of her PhD, but if you're a podcast person Talking Rubbish also did a good episode in battery fires and battery recycling https://pca.st/episode/d9092c8f-dcbf-46d3-8145-02652b096b07
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@kbm0 they should be doing this, but the shop owners with the bins may not know . I supplemented that post with a bit of background knowledge not from the tour because an ex of mine did a lot of research on battery recycling as part of her PhD, but if you're a podcast person Talking Rubbish also did a good episode in battery fires and battery recycling https://pca.st/episode/d9092c8f-dcbf-46d3-8145-02652b096b07
@afewbugs Yeah it seems to me that any shop accepting lithium batteries should really have a fireproof bin to put them in.
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@quixoticgeek @afewbugs @idlestate @CiaraNi it's going to a landfill anyway - where do you think the ash gets dumped? Another poor, black and brown neighborhood.
@akamran @quixoticgeek @idlestate @CiaraNi the ash is at least significantly reduced in volume and less toxic than the crude waste through, and can be used as building aggregate (I know the buildings themselves will eventually be demolished and the material have to go somewhere). I would much rather live next to a waste to energy plant than a landfill, even a closed one
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@akamran @quixoticgeek @idlestate @CiaraNi the ash is at least significantly reduced in volume and less toxic than the crude waste through, and can be used as building aggregate (I know the buildings themselves will eventually be demolished and the material have to go somewhere). I would much rather live next to a waste to energy plant than a landfill, even a closed one
@afewbugs @quixoticgeek @idlestate @CiaraNi no it's not less toxic, the aggregate is unstable and of dubious quality and toxicity, and will contaminate both water and air. This landfill/ashfill does all of the above. It was started before I was in kindergarten and is still going strong and it's less than 5 miles from me https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/crowd-shouts-shame-as-new-york-town-unveils-plan-for-landfill-s-forever-chemical-plume/ar-AA255nGE Everything we warned them would happen in the 1970s happened.
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@afewbugs @quixoticgeek @idlestate @CiaraNi no it's not less toxic, the aggregate is unstable and of dubious quality and toxicity, and will contaminate both water and air. This landfill/ashfill does all of the above. It was started before I was in kindergarten and is still going strong and it's less than 5 miles from me https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/crowd-shouts-shame-as-new-york-town-unveils-plan-for-landfill-s-forever-chemical-plume/ar-AA255nGE Everything we warned them would happen in the 1970s happened.
@akamran @quixoticgeek @idlestate @CiaraNi I suspect this may be a difference in European vs US regulation standards. The bottom ash from UK incinerators is turned into construction materials https://www.ecoblend.co.uk/ I'm not saying it produces no waste that needs disposing of or no air pollution, but landfilling unincinerated rubbish would produce more of both. As I say this isn't a perfect solution, and ideally we would be producing significantly less waste as a society instead of trying to find the least bad way to dispose of it. But in the UK at least I do think this is the most sustainable way to do that
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@akamran @quixoticgeek @idlestate @CiaraNi I suspect this may be a difference in European vs US regulation standards. The bottom ash from UK incinerators is turned into construction materials https://www.ecoblend.co.uk/ I'm not saying it produces no waste that needs disposing of or no air pollution, but landfilling unincinerated rubbish would produce more of both. As I say this isn't a perfect solution, and ideally we would be producing significantly less waste as a society instead of trying to find the least bad way to dispose of it. But in the UK at least I do think this is the most sustainable way to do that
@afewbugs
@akamran @quixoticgeek @CiaraNiFrom what I can tell that article describes straight-to-landfill disposal, not incinerator ash disposal.
one of the things pyrolysis or incineration done sufficiently well accomplishes is turning all the PFAS into carbon dioxide (or hydrocarbons) and inorganic, mineral-like fluorides
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@afewbugs
@akamran @quixoticgeek @CiaraNiFrom what I can tell that article describes straight-to-landfill disposal, not incinerator ash disposal.
one of the things pyrolysis or incineration done sufficiently well accomplishes is turning all the PFAS into carbon dioxide (or hydrocarbons) and inorganic, mineral-like fluorides
@idlestate @afewbugs @akamran @CiaraNi also. There's a lot of difference between waste to energy plants built in Europe in the last ten years or so (most European plants are relatively recent builds). And something older built without modern European environmental rules.
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@idlestate @afewbugs @akamran @CiaraNi also. There's a lot of difference between waste to energy plants built in Europe in the last ten years or so (most European plants are relatively recent builds). And something older built without modern European environmental rules.
@quixoticgeek
@afewbugs @akamran @CiaraNiI don't doubt it.
Speaking of "environmental rules" and given the importance of doing it well, I'd have trouble enthusing about anything approved in the US right now.
the whole problem space is one of finding reachable, less-bad paths and figuring out how to get on them
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@afewbugs Just recently, someone mentioned in here in passing that there is no concept of domestic battery disposal in Florida. That you just chuck batteries in the usual bin. I was both amazed and not amazed to learn that 'don't put batteries in domestic waste' is not common knowledge or practice everywhere.
@CiaraNi @afewbugs I’m in New York City and we’re now told to put single-use alkaline batteries in the regular trash, with (only) the largest ones taped up to prevent contact. I vaguely recall that’s a recent-ish thing though as that used to not be the case. For non-alkalines there are drop-offs and occasional “disposal events.” Also, you can theoretically bring them to any store that sells them. In theory.
https://www.nyc.gov/site/dsny/collection/get-rid-of/batteries.page
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@quixoticgeek
@afewbugs @akamran @CiaraNiI don't doubt it.
Speaking of "environmental rules" and given the importance of doing it well, I'd have trouble enthusing about anything approved in the US right now.
the whole problem space is one of finding reachable, less-bad paths and figuring out how to get on them
@quixoticgeek
@afewbugs @CiaraNiThis is just one of several nearby trash mountains.
the name alone underscores @akamran's point about dispossession and exploitation
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But the worst one is batteries. Most people now (hopefully!) know you shouldn't put batteries in your domestic waste, but only recognise batteries as the little AA cylinders rather than recognising batteries as being in little household things like toothbrushes, hearing aids, ear pods or vibrators where they're sealed in and invisible. Vapes are a huge one, and although single use vapes have been banned vapes with a recharge port at a similar price point are still being treated as single use disposable items. These cause a lot of fires in waste collection lorries when they're compacted, but also fires at waste management plants which want the fire in one place only, the kiln. So remove batteries from small electronic devices for disposal if you can, and if you can't dispose of the whole device in the battery recycling bin that every shop selling batteries should by law have available.
So basically stick your broken sex toys in the clear plastic battery bin in Sainsburys
@afewbugs@social.coop if one has a belt sander or some coarse-grit wet&dry paper, it’s worth safely abrading the sex toy creatively before discarding in the transparent battery bin, so that when people see it they think no wonder the owner wore it out, look at the vaginal teeth marks on it!
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@afewbugs
@akamran @quixoticgeek @CiaraNiFrom what I can tell that article describes straight-to-landfill disposal, not incinerator ash disposal.
one of the things pyrolysis or incineration done sufficiently well accomplishes is turning all the PFAS into carbon dioxide (or hydrocarbons) and inorganic, mineral-like fluorides
@idlestate @afewbugs @quixoticgeek @CiaraNi it was straight to landfill, now it's c&d and ashfill
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@CiaraNi @afewbugs I’m in New York City and we’re now told to put single-use alkaline batteries in the regular trash, with (only) the largest ones taped up to prevent contact. I vaguely recall that’s a recent-ish thing though as that used to not be the case. For non-alkalines there are drop-offs and occasional “disposal events.” Also, you can theoretically bring them to any store that sells them. In theory.
https://www.nyc.gov/site/dsny/collection/get-rid-of/batteries.page
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@afewbugs @idlestate @CiaraNi
Video about the Copenhagen plant.
https://youtu.be/21ijLduW0nw@quixoticgeek @afewbugs @idlestate Cool idea!
